Episode 95 - Superconnecting through Lego with Dr. Kate Raynes-Goldie

Hey smart human, did you ever dream about what you wanted to be when you grew up?

If, like me, you did, then you probably restricted yourself in what was possible for you.

And I'm guessing didn't consider becoming a business & cultural anthropologist who has designed a connecting tool using the power of LEGO serious play... This is exactly the beauty of my guest on this week's podcast Episode: what Dr. Kate is doing and creating is WAY better than anything you could dream up ahead of time. 

In this week's episode, Dr. Kate Raynes-Goldie discusses the importance of incorporating fun, play, and connection into our lives. She emphasizes the importance of creating inclusive environments that prioritize psychological safety and consent. We dig into what it means to be neurodivergent, the importance of freedom,  the transformative power of information, and much much more.

If you only take one thing away from this Episode it should be this: Have more fun!

The main teaching and takeaways from this interview:

• Incorporating fun, play, and connection is crucial for a fulfilling life. By engaging in activities that bring joy and foster connections with others, we can enhance our overall well-being and satisfaction.
• By using hands-on activities and creative thinking, we can tap into our imagination and explore new perspectives.
• Creating inclusive environments requires prioritizing psychological safety and consent. It is important to create spaces where individuals feel safe to express themselves and where their boundaries are respected.
• Understanding and accepting neurodivergent conditions is essential for promoting inclusivity. 
• Innovation has the potential to bring about transformative change. By embracing new ideas and approaches, we can challenge the status quo and find innovative solutions to complex problems.
• The concept of freedom and the role of power play a significant role in making a positive impact. By understanding the dynamics of power and advocating for freedom and equality, we can work towards creating a more just and equitable society.

Show Notes

Dr. Kate's website: https://www.kateraynesgoldie.com/
LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kateraynesgoldie/?originalSubdomain=au
More about the Superconnect Method:
https://www.kateraynesgoldie.com/superconnect

Want to be the first to hear about new episodes and other free content that will help you manage your smart mind? Subscribe here.

Are you interested in working with me? Click here.

Connect with me on LinkedIn |Insta| FB

Transcript

Else Kramer (00:00:02) - All right. Smart humans, I am utterly delighted for so many reasons to have on the podcast today as a guest, Dr. Kate. And you can finish with next. You remember Reynolds Range scolding, right? People always get stuck with the reins. Great reins. And we're going to start we're going to dive right in because Dr. Kate loves to play. We'll get to that later. Who told you? I always love to start with the question, What is your biggest frustration? Oh, wow. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it goes straight in it. Oh, I have to think about that. What is my biggest frustration? Um. I mean. That you could just.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:00:52) - Go so many different ways with that. Um.

Else Kramer (00:00:56) - There isn't a right answer, I'm sure. Well, I'm trying to answer that. I'm trying to think.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:01:00) - Of the biggest one. Okay, Maybe we need more fun. We need more play. Yeah. And more connection. I think that's, you know, like, it's the first thing I was going to say is, like, something really boring, like not being on time, but I'm not on time.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:01:15) - Maybe that's why it bothers me so much. But really, I think it's it's yeah, it's. It's more fun. And I just saw the Barbie movie last night with my partner and his. His daughter. He's nine. And if you haven't seen it, I won't say to any spoilers, but there's this beautiful scene towards the end where all the executives, it's kind of like everybody's having their cathartic moment of their revelation of what, you know, what they need to learn at the end of the movie. And their whole thing is like, we need to dance and sing and have fun and hug each other. And was like, Yes, they agree, right?

Else Kramer (00:01:50) - Yeah, totally. It's so funny because whenever I am in like, what is the training or some other environment, I will always be like, Guys, why aren't we having fun? Like, not that we shouldn't be serious and apply ourselves, but you know, learning gets to be fun. And it's so I'm sure you know more about this than I do.

Else Kramer (00:02:12) - It's so much more effective when it's fun as well.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:02:15) - Yeah, Yeah. And it's not just, I think, fun in the sense of like, let's go on a roller coaster and I'm thinking about that beautiful Lego model you have.

Else Kramer (00:02:24) - Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:02:25) - But it's, you know, what brings you joy and purpose. And I was working with a client this morning and that was part of the conversation is I really like to work with go givers rather than go getters and think the difference in that is. You want to like part of the joy is doing something that makes you feel happy and brings you joy in your passion, but also you're helping other people to make a difference. Yes. And so even if fun is, it's like, what's your fun and what brings you joy? What brings you happiness? And it doesn't have to be like, oh, I need to do the stereotypical fun, but something that's like, I really love.

Else Kramer (00:03:01) - Exactly.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:03:02) - Spreadsheets. If you love spreadsheets and that's fun for you, then that's, you know, that's what we need.

Else Kramer (00:03:09) - Yeah, exactly. Like, no judgment. Like, I don't like parties with loud music and. No, but seriously, for for years I thought, oh, I have to celebrate if I, if I've got something, you know, to celebrate, whether it's in my business or in my life, I need to go to a cafe in a bar and like be around loud music and have alcohol. And a couple of years ago, I realized that's not necessary at all. That's just a made up thing that lots of people enjoy that I really don't. So I can make up my own way to celebrate what gives you joy? What makes you happy? Is it spreadsheets to that?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:03:42) - No, it's not spreadsheets. But get joined people who love spreadsheets so they can, you know, do the spreadsheet stuff. Don't have to do it. And then I'm happy. But also to just to to jam on what you were saying about, you know, what's your fun. It's also not having the should.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:03:58) - So I should find this fun. If you don't, then don't you know that that should is so powerful to get rid of.

Else Kramer (00:04:05) - I have an entire podcast episode on this like it's called the word you're never allowed to Use Again. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Agree.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:04:13) - Think that's so good. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, for me, I think doing things that is not what I should be doing, but what I actually do to segway to your next question, but actually makes me happy and it's my passion and would say it's really about. Connecting people and helping them to be curious. And that's where the play comes in, because think play gets a bad rap, but it's really powerful for doing those two things for the outcome, like plays, how you get there. Yeah, but the outcome is connection and curiosity and connection and curiosity feeds back into connection. And you know how we boost bringing people together and being curious and all of the good things that come out of those things. So.

Else Kramer (00:04:54) - So tell me more about how you do that, because you sort of wake up in the morning and think, okay, you know, connection brings me joy. Yeah, let's get some connection.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:05:03) - How do you do that?

Else Kramer (00:05:04) - Yeah. What does it look like?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:05:05) - My favorite tool is? Well, my background. One of the many things I've done in my life is game design. So not physical world. I mean, not video games, but physical world games. So almost like escape rooms that you play. So like maybe Pokémon Go is sort of the closest.

Else Kramer (00:05:22) - Okay. I just started playing that again. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:05:25) - Serious because people were doing that's coming back. Yeah. Um, but what I really loved about that was, was how it was a tool to bring people together and to explore different concepts and explore understanding each other and, um, just as like a tool for something other than just play, even though play is great in itself. Yeah. Um, but it really brought me to understand that what I really was interested in was community and connection and how that by not being about that was about that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:05:59) - And that's how I came into Lego Series play, which is one of my favorite tools for connection, which it wasn't actually designed for. It's, you know, was a, a tool developed by two European business professors and the Lego group for strategy and improving business outcomes. But I think the secret of it is that it does build connection. Yeah. And it does create authentic connection. It builds trust and it allows people to be vulnerable together. And in doing that you're able to really. When people feel heard and seen and safe, they're able to to share, to have better conversations about the things that really matter. Absolutely. And so, again, it's like connections are great in itself, but it also enables all of these things. And so my take and my my passion with it is using something that seems very simple and almost deceptively simple. And at the end of a session, people are just like, how did you know? How did that happen? It's almost like magic. So what does that look like?

Else Kramer (00:06:58) - Because I'm sure everybody who's listening is wondering like, okay, so you get people in a room and you give them Lego bricks.

Else Kramer (00:07:04) - I mean, yeah, yeah. Like I can picture this, but maybe not everybody. Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:07:10) - Yeah. And so it's not you're not and I like to I've started using the word create rather than build because like, what you're creating with Lego is you're not building cars and buildings and perfect things. You're. You're creating metaphor and story and feeling. Yes. And so I'm not trying to create.

Else Kramer (00:07:30) - A replica of something in the world.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:07:32) - No, no. And so if people come and say, oh, I'm not creative or, you know, where are the instructions, I'm feeling really intimidated, where the instructions are, what to build. And it's not like that at all. It's really about almost like you can think about it as almost a meditation practice or a grounding practice, and you're thinking with your hands. And I was just.

Else Kramer (00:07:51) - About to say, Yeah, thinking with your hands. Totally. Yeah. It's very different. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:07:58) - And so when you're putting things together, so the first you're almost like, I like to call it an initiation when you're coming into this new way of creating with Lego.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:08:09) - It's build a tower with you in it that says something about you. And so that's an adaptation from Michael Fearn, who was my certifier, who did my certification in Lego serious play. But that was adapted from the original, which is slightly different. I'm not sure what it was, but it's all, you know, um, evolving and iterating. And that's what's great about the method in general. We can get into that.

Else Kramer (00:08:31) - But yeah, and I'm sure all the, all the people who do this like are constantly improving because they have smart minds and they love to innovate, right?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:08:38) - And it's open source. So you can. Yeah. What other facilitation method can you do that? So you get beautiful things like that where. It's whatever. A table or. That's another one I like to use. Build a table with you on it that says something about you. It's all kind of metaphorical archetype. Prompt, yes, but it's build a tower with you in it. And what a tower is, what you in it.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:08:58) - Any of those things can mean anything. There's no right or wrong. And so people will create totally different things. Yeah. And sometimes people will build upside down, which is where the studs are on the bottom, which is that's not actually upside down in, in Lego series play. Um, and the things that come out of that, I've had people that I've worked with and just that one question which is a throwaway question, it's just the initiation. It's not actually getting into the meat of it. Things will be revealed to them that like, Wow, I didn't even realize that that was something I need to pay attention.

Else Kramer (00:09:30) - I seriously want to do that today. Yeah. Miller Tower, Like, see what my hands will make, basically. Yeah. Yeah. It's also a way of, like, letting the subconscious talk. Guess.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:09:41) - Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:09:43) - But in a very accessible way rather than having people sort of a drawing can be like incredibly intimidating to people. Here you have kind of the building blocks to let your subconscious do the talking, but without having to like, need a specific skill.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:09:59) - Yeah. You don't have to be good at drawing. You don't have to be good at it. You can be creative without having the almost the, the. It's almost like a, um. I'm trying to think of the word, but it's almost like the functional skill. You don't need to have all this these extra things to be able to articulate yourself exactly with these pre-made bricks that are already quite amazing.

Else Kramer (00:10:24) - And I love this because my next card is trust. Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:10:28) - That's great.

Else Kramer (00:10:29) - So, like, how do you build the trust that people are actually dare to build a tower with them in it? Like as in, this is a deeply personal I mean, as an icebreaker, it's pretty, you know, courageous.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:10:41) - Yeah. And that's so because it's an open source method. My my joy with it is that I can add to it and evolve it. And so I have a particular add on called Super Connect, which is by the name. What the name implies is all about connection.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:10:57) - And I'm really interested in how do you create psychological safety and how do you create vulnerability. So I've added in things because this this method was developed in the 90s, right, Right. And so it was a very different time for a whole bunch of different reasons, like it was before Covid, um.

Else Kramer (00:11:13) - Shoulder pads.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:11:13) - So yeah, yeah. So they were thinking about, you know, psychological safety and mental health maybe as much as we are now. Um, so one of the things is really about consent. So making sure that, you know, you can share as much or as little as you want. So, so when you build something or create something, if you, if something gets revealed to you, you don't have to share it. You can just say, this is my model and this is what that's it. That's, that's all you have to say. Or you can share as much as you want. Another thing is there's no bystanders, so no one's watching. Everybody has to participate.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:11:51) - But again, that participation is you share as much or as little as you want. Yeah. So it's those two things that I think are really important and there's other things you can do around inclusivity and how you design your sessions and how you design your workshops to make sure that people are included from the get go. So I always like to ask when people sign up for my facilitator training things like, is there anything that we can do so that you feel the most comfortable and most able to learn? Okay, this is really open ended. Okay, hang on. It's an invitation.

Else Kramer (00:12:23) - Everybody listening who facilitates? Can you please add this like today? I mean, seriously, that is such a great question. People are like, I mean, I've just been to an event and being autistic and having ADHD, I have special needs, let's face it, right? Like, so it's amazing if organizers are willing to even if they can't accommodate everything, which I can understand sometimes just them asking makes such a massive difference.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:12:50) - Yeah, Yeah. And I think it's also really hard to ask when you have, you know, there's things that you're constantly having to fight to get your needs met. And it's like this exhaustion. And if someone's just inviting you to share as much as you want about what you need. And then it's happened often. In fact, I think every single time I've adjusted something, it's made it better for everybody. So even if it's just dietary, it's like dietary stuff is, is like the most basic thing but never gets accommodated. Well, not never. But like, it's quite rare the amount of people that have stuff, dietary stuff, it's not accommodated as well as it could be. And that's like a really basic thing. And it's just if you go to an event that's about inclusivity or about something and it's like feel like the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And so it's like the whole event needs to be aligned and making sure that it's aligned with what you're trying to do is so important, even if it's just making sure that everybody gets their food accommodated.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:13:51) - Yeah. Is a huge thing.

Else Kramer (00:13:52) - So I think the accommodations love that you're saying that like all the accommodations, same like in the workspace. So many things people are asking for like neurotypical people will be like, Yeah, I want that to like, that would be amazing but just want a quick card.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:14:07) - The dietary stations and events, right? There's like people guarding it so the other people don't come and take all the special foods. So. Exactly.

Else Kramer (00:14:15) - Exactly. That was what it was like. Actually, this means that you needed like a special sign on your badge to go to the dietary needs space.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:14:22) - Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:14:23) - I just wanted to go back to trust and ask you about how like, what is it like for you personally? How have you built Self-trust? Because you're out there in the world, right? You seem pretty confident. How did you have you were you born that way? How did you build it?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:14:39) - Definitely not. Um, I think it's a lot. A lot of work.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:14:43) - A lot of work on myself. Um, how did I do that? I mean. I think. Yeah, just a lot of, I think a lot of practice and doing I have a game of doing things that scare me. So it's like, hang on.

Else Kramer (00:14:58) - Like, are you like clairvoyant? Or the next card is challenging yourself. I love it when this happens.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:15:05) - And don't play it so much now because I think it's done its job. But if there's something that I want to do but I'm I feel scared. Yeah. That it's not going to kill me. Right. It's just like a something. Yes. Okay. Logically scary. Not actually like, you know, go jump off the cliff because, you know, that is scary. And there's a good reason. It's scary.

Else Kramer (00:15:25) - I think it's important also to like just to insert here to people who are like, oh, I need to go do scary things. Make sure if you do scary things or things that be outside your comfort zone, but not in your terror zone, right where you go into like fight flight, all the things that is not useful.

Else Kramer (00:15:42) - Oh, it's like.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:15:43) - In my yoga classes, the teachers talk about going to your edge and like, just before your edge. So don't go past your edge because exactly.

Else Kramer (00:15:50) - Just play just before.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:15:51) - Yeah, be dangerous, but in a safe way.

Else Kramer (00:15:54) - So what game did you design? What does it look like for yourself?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:15:57) - So it's basically if I ever had something that I would be scared to do, usually it was around talking to people because I'm actually an introvert. Then I had to do it. So one of the big ones was, um, I used to be really scared of professional speaking, even though that's like what I do for a big part of my work and also helping other people in professional speaker coaching and strategy, but at the same time having to learn how to be confident. Doing that means that I'm really good at helping other people. Because if you don't have to go through. Yes. Like I don't understand, you know? Yeah. Um, so one of the things that I did when I was doing my PhD was for some reason when you're a PhD student, you get to teach classes, you get to teach undergraduates, even though you have no experience other than, I don't know, that's just how it works.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:16:47) - So I had this opportunity to teach to teach one day a week at my university. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to do it because it's a safe space to I think they're really forgiving because they're probably used to being taught by PhD students who are just learning how to teach. Um, so just doing that every week, Um, improv classes really helped as well. And just it was like, okay, it's scared me, but it's the more that I can do it, the more that I can see that I'm not going to die. And that's why improv classes are really great because when you're in an improv class, you and everybody else there are doing a really terrible job because it's your first improv class or your second one or your third one. So they're all like massively failing together. But once you've had that experience of, Wow, I massively screwed up on stage and I still recovered and I actually can be good on my feet and you see yourself being different. So I think that's I think that's what it is, is giving yourself opportunities to to do things in a different way and be in a different way.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:17:50) - Yes. Um, because actually I, this is a conference that I spoke at in the US because when I was living in Toronto, in Canada, you could just drive to a lot of American cities. So I drove to this big conference and then I presented this paper that was. Probably the first paper on internet friendship. Like social Friendship on social media. Yeah. Which is like a big deal. Yep. But I thought I answered a question wrong and not well. So I got in my car and drove back to Toronto and that was like the level of like anxiety used to get everyone speaking. So to say that this practice does work right?

Else Kramer (00:18:31) - Yeah, 100%. I sometimes give my clients assignments, right? It's like a seven day challenge. Like every day they have to do something that freaks them out in a good way, right? And that is something that is actually meaningful to them because. Right. It doesn't make sense to go do something you never would want to do. You have to be.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:18:46) - Something you want.

Else Kramer (00:18:47) - Yeah. And even better, it's something fun. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:18:52) - Know. Well, professional speaking is fun now. Don't think it was fun at the time, but improv is fun, so.

Else Kramer (00:18:57) - No, but that the idea of doing it, like, without all the angst that that makes sense, right? That you would do it and then just build that confidence that is.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:19:06) - And if you can make it a game too, because that's where it's if you so that my friend challenged me to do this game which is that I had to go into the city and speak to five people like have not like five what was it non transactional conversation. So I couldn't buy a cup of coffee and then talk to the barista. It had to be just like five actual conversations with strangers. And that was like terrifying to me. But I did it. But it was like, I can't leave until I've done it. And everybody wanted to talk except for one person who thought I was hitting on on their boyfriend.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:19:40) - Um, but it was the fact that I even if they, even if they were awkward, all five of them were awkward. The fact I did it is like I won the game, right? It's like it doesn't matter what I won the game, so I did it.

Else Kramer (00:19:51) - Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:19:52) - I love this like brain hack.

Else Kramer (00:19:54) - Totally. I tend to give this one like something similar to clients for network events, right? Like, I was like, okay, you're going to network event. I get that you hate it, like etcetera, etcetera. So let's make it a game and give yourself like a secret mission. Like find five people who own a cat. In the room. Love it. Right? Stuff like that make it much, much, much more fun.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:20:16) - Do they ever get people in on the game as well? Do they say, hey, I'm playing this, have this challenge so.

Else Kramer (00:20:21) - That they tell me, but maybe they don't know?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:20:24) - I'm surprised by how much people are like down to play.

Else Kramer (00:20:27) - Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:20:28) - That's normal. Wants to be at a networking event, right?

Else Kramer (00:20:31) - Love this. Like, just find allies and then go work the room. And then you could actually go to like, find the cat people, the dog people and try to secretly divide them slowly. You know, creating sections. I'm getting so many ideas already. This is actually a perfect, like, sort of subconscious icebreaker to like a secret mission to give people if you have like a big event and you're doing ice like surface level ice breaking and then underneath, you also give them this mission. Yeah. Oh, you didn't try that next time. All right. Next card is about boundaries.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:21:08) - Oh, that's.

Else Kramer (00:21:10) - Very important around games, around facilitation, but also in life itself. So what is what are boundaries for you and how do you set them and enforce them? Oh, this.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:21:20) - Is a very good question. Well, mean game. Mean games are all about rules and boundaries, right? Um, but I think boundaries for me are there.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:21:31) - I think we think of them as like things that other people have to do, but they're really about our self respect because if we don't hold a boundary, how can we expect anybody else to?

Else Kramer (00:21:42) - Exactly. Yeah. Boundaries on a boundary if you're not willing to enforce it.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:21:46) - Yeah. You can't be like, Oh, he doesn't respect my boundaries or she doesn't respect my boundaries because, well, that that's not how it works.

Else Kramer (00:21:54) - So that is wishful thinking. Like, I wish people would do what I want, basically. Yeah. And sadly, they don't.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:22:00) - You got to do it. You got to do it first, and then they will. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:22:03) - Yeah. And what is that like for you? Like when it comes to, for example, I know most smart people tend to want to do a lot of things. And also most smart people get to have a lot of people ask them to do fun things with them, right? Like it, invite them to collaborate. So do you need to say no? What is that like for you? How do you set boundaries around your time?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:22:26) - Oh, that's a really good question too.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:22:28) - So have you come across human design? Yes. Yeah. So I'm a projector. And so if you haven't heard of human design, you can go and just Google human design chart and all you need is your birthday and well, your birth time. But yeah, um, if you don't know your birth time, you can make it up. It'll still tell you generally what you are. But what I found about human design is that it's really, it's almost like astrology on like, how would you describe it?

Else Kramer (00:22:54) - Well, to me it is like, listen, I have a problem with it in that to me it's astrology multiplied beyond necessity. So I'm like, Give me Ockham's Razor. Yeah, like, seriously, it's just too complicated.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:23:05) - Yeah, okay.

Else Kramer (00:23:06) - Much too much. But that's okay. I know it's super helpful to lots of people like. Like Myers-Briggs is or whatever. It's just a way of understanding your what is your character or your proclivities or whatever, and to make sense of how you are in the world and then multiply or amplify what you like about that.

Else Kramer (00:23:22) - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:23:24) - It's for me, it's really about energy management, which is because, you know, astrology is interesting and interesting. Anagrams are interesting, but I find it most useful because it's like really functional. So it's kind of tells you how it almost is like a boundary tool. So, you know, without getting too much into human design, the whole thing about projectors is you have that's another thing like it's all about strategy. So you have strategies. And the strategy for projector is you have to wait for the invitation. So it's all about waiting for the right. And it's not just any invitation, it's waiting for the right invitation. And so it's almost like you're waiting for an invitation. And then when that happens, you're checking in to see if it's the right one. So someone's inviting you to do something. It has to be a good invitation and it has to sit well with you. So there's almost a bit of checking in with yourself. Um, so learning about that has been a huge change for me because I would just say yes to everything, right? And especially when it's big things in your life.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:24:26) - So if I look at all of the big things that have happened to me, they've been invitations like coming to Australia to do a PhD. So my PhD supervisor invited me. He met me at a conference and invited me and that was changed my life. I'm still in Australia, still, you know, doing all these amazing things thanks to doing that PhD. Um, but it's like that's the thing is, it's, it's anything that's big in your life, you have to wait for that invitation. Um, but even smaller things I've noticed, like I don't go giving advice unless people ask me for it if I.

Else Kramer (00:24:58) - I love that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:25:00) - Yeah, but it's not. And some people can do that. Some people can give you advice without it being asked for, but mean. Maybe not, but have fooled other people. It just never it never works to me like, you know, like blanket statement. Um, but I think that that's a key thing of managing my boundaries and knowing when to say no is it's like, am I trying to make it happen? Or is someone else actually, like, really saying, Hey, I really want you to come and do this? And are they asking for the right reason? Does it feel good in my body?

Else Kramer (00:25:31) - I was saying I was like, You also really feel into it.

Else Kramer (00:25:34) - Like, is this like. Does this involve like a lot of, like, strenuous effort on my part to even get this moving? Or is it just like this moving train that I'm invited to jump on and it feels delightful and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:25:50) - Theme is bitterness, right? So if I try and do something and it's the wrong invitation or it's not even an invitation and I'm like, Why is no one listening to me? Why? And you get the frustration idea that I have. Yeah. So, yeah, so Human Design's been really great for me to figure out, you know, what my strategy is for what to say yes to and what to say no to and what to put my energy into.

Else Kramer (00:26:10) - And how do you manage all the, like, shiny objects in your life? I mean, it's a similar thing, right? But.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:26:19) - How do I manage all the shiny objects?

Else Kramer (00:26:21) - As in you're interested in everything. I'm assuming. Like almost everything.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:26:26) - Yes.

Else Kramer (00:26:27) - Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:26:28) - Um.

Else Kramer (00:26:29) - Like all listeners, I'm sure. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:26:31) - The best way for me is, I think what's been the real, like, the game changer for me. And that is really getting clear on what, what my passion is, what my purpose is. And it took a long time. And it's only been the past few years that I've been really clear on. It's about connection and curiosity and enabling that through play. And because so my partner and I, who is my my business partner in my life partner, he's he's very organized and he loves spreadsheets. But we put together this offer, this hopper filter thing that has these different layers and it has to go through the hopper as well. So it's kind of first it's I have that initial my personal thing of how it is an invitation and do I feel invited. And then if it's something we're going to work on together, then it goes through the hopper. So there's like these two layers. And that's really helped me to stay focused because I'm neurodivergent he's neurotypical, so it's a really good partnership that we, you know, can be.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:27:32) - I think it's like he brings order to my I want to say creative chaos, but I think chaos has a negative connotation, but almost like there's just we cover all the bases together.

Else Kramer (00:27:43) - So I think creative chaos are just sort of all encompassing, encompassing, like curiosity. Yeah, right. And then that needs to be directed at some stage.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:27:53) - Exactly.

Else Kramer (00:27:54) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Okay, so it sounds like you. You found your kind of mission. What about values? How did they come into that?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:28:05) - That's always been clear to me in my life that it's always I've always been very interested in people. Understanding cultures and understanding how people connect or don't connect and understanding meaning and wanting to work with people who are changing the world. Like people who actually really care. Yeah, like the Go givers. That's always been very clear to me that that's what I'm here to do, is to be a go giver or I am a go giver. I'm not here to do that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:28:36) - I am and to support other people doing that as well.

Else Kramer (00:28:39) - So you've always known this. This has always been clear to you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:28:42) - It's always been, yeah.

Else Kramer (00:28:43) - Amazing. What was school like for you?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:28:49) - Terrible. I loved university, but didn't like high school. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:28:54) - Yeah. Did you feel like you weren't challenged enough? Was it boring? I mean, well, how could they have improved it?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:29:00) - Well, I think this is a very typical story for women neurodivergent women, because I long story short, my parents have my parents ended up. Yeah, it's a complicated story I don't need to go into, but I ended up at a school that you have to you had to do a test to get into. Yeah. Where? Think I don't know what it was, but it was a, you know, some fancy IQ, blah, blah, blah. And I scored off the charts and so they had these very high expectations of me. But then when I got there, I was a really bad student and it was like, Why are you being so lazy and why are you right? Just applied yourself, right? Oh my God.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:29:42) - So I look back and I'm like, How come no one was like, What's going on here? Right? Like what? You know.

Else Kramer (00:29:50) - Just berating you. Why didn't they try to solve the problem? Which mean my next card is ADHD? Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:29:57) - So, yeah, so, yeah, so long story short, by the time I got to university, um, somehow I still got to university. Despite being a terrible student that didn't apply herself or whatever it was. Yeah. Um, and I said, okay, there's something going on here. I really have to investigate it. And this is 20 years ago. It's actually 20 years ago to, to this year. I'm not sure what month, but it was 22,003. And I so I went to the the accessibility and diversity disability, whatever it was called, at the university and said, I think I have I think it was Ade back then. I think I have this because I had some, some guy friends who who had it and I was like, Yeah, that sounds like what's going on for me.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:30:38) - And I got sent to a I think it was an educational psychologist. And she concluded from on more tests that I had a learning disability which didn't sit well with me there. She was some useful things around my learning style, which I found really useful. So I got everything I needed to succeed at university through that, like accommodations and things. But I also found that saying I have learning disability to to my professors. Some of them it actually, even though I'd get accommodation, you know, things like using a computer or getting more time on my exams, they would just discriminate against me. So I stopped telling people about it. And when I started university because I could do what I needed to do to learn and I didn't need to tell anybody anymore. But what happened?

Else Kramer (00:31:23) - You basically hacked the system, right?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:31:25) - You're the system. But then it was like, Is my house so messy? Why can't I be organized? Why can't I be an adult? So, um, yeah, it's really, it's really funny timing and connecting because, um, I decided again, I had all these amazing women friends who are getting diagnosed late, you know, late in their life diagnosis and me going, Okay, I think there's something here.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:31:48) - I think I was actually right. And I went back and just a few weeks ago got I actually said, Yeah, you're like.

Else Kramer (00:31:54) - Lo and behold.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:31:55) - Inattentive ADHD. And I'm like, Yeah, this makes sense. So yeah.

Else Kramer (00:32:00) - So what was that like? Like getting this sort of confirmation of what you've known obviously for years, but that people then said, No, you're wrong.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:32:08) - Yeah, that was well I mean it was, it was, yeah. Lots of lots of emotions around it. Yeah. You know just feeling like angry that if I'd known this 20 years ago it would have been really helpful and just. Is that that feeling of like, wow, um, there's not something. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. And if I had been supported better or understood better than then I could have achieved, you know, done better in school or done whatever it was. And so it's just that, that, that. Lack of or the energy that's freed up. When you stop feeling ashamed and think thankfully mean 20 years ago, I think ADHD.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:32:52) - We think we're way more accepting of being neurodivergent now.

Else Kramer (00:32:56) - There's still a lot of work to be done. But yes, we're getting we're getting some say to.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:33:00) - People like if I forget something or do something and go, I've just, you know, I got ADHD and people are like, Oh, that makes sense because you're this like, smart, interesting, creative person. So, you know, I can tell who's going to be open to hearing and positive. So it's been it's been yeah, it's been complicated in the feelings. But I think just having clarity on okay actually this like being validated and knowing and saying okay now I know this makes sense and what, what I can do to support myself better. And so I.

Else Kramer (00:33:31) - Always feel like it's.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:33:32) - Getting a.

Else Kramer (00:33:33) - Manual for finally. Yes. For your brain. Right. And I think just for to generalize it for I think I hear very similar stories from people who have been diagnosed, whether it's, you know, like late in life, whether it's with autism, whether it's ADHD, whether it's giftedness, because a lot of women especially, but also some men don't get diagnosed until their kid gets diagnosed as being insanely smart.

Else Kramer (00:33:57) - And they're like, oh my God, Especially if they also have ADHD. Most of their life they've been told you're you're just so stupid or so all over the place.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:34:05) - Lazy or undisciplined or whatever it is.

Else Kramer (00:34:08) - All the things, right? And then of course, there's the grief, the anger, and then also the the finally sort of, oh, my God, I can stop making myself wrong. Right? Thinking am a flawed human and like, something's broken. No, I just have a different brain and I'm amazing at and shit like that is a bit challenging for me. Good to know. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:34:28) - I think especially for women too, because there's this whole extra layer of things that we feel like things that I think you're supposed to do as a woman that are hard to do with ADHD that. Yeah, I think just knowing that it's like a huge. It's almost like part of your identity. You can. You mean like.

Else Kramer (00:34:50) - Keeping a decent house and stuff like that?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:34:52) - Or like, if you're like, I don't have kids.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:34:54) - My partner has a daughter and I love hanging out with her, but I'm like, I could never there's a reason I don't have kids, but I've read about women who have kids and it's like, Why can't I do everything that I need to do to be a parent? And instead of it and but it's like they they find out later that they have ADHD and if they've known. And I think that's why I'm like talking about it now because it's it's I think, you know, if we women get diagnosed and women find out, then it just takes away that shame. And it's like, okay, well, this is how I am. And you can start really loving and accepting yourself. Yes. And being like, this is what I need. So, I mean, that's what I love about my there's so many things I love about my partner, but he just like he's so supportive of how I am and and. You know, it's like the things that come the things that come with ADHD.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:35:36) - There's a lot of good things, too. But he's very supportive of me doing the things that the way that I need to do them. And in that it actually helps me to overcome a lot of the challenges of ADHD because I'm not spending all this time being embarrassed or ashamed. Yes, it's such.

Else Kramer (00:35:53) - An energy saver, right?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:35:54) - Yeah. And it's so important for women. I think there's just so many things in that make it extra difficult for women, especially because we don't get diagnosed until later because we're really good at masking. Yeah. So I just it's like something I really feel passionate about because it's like, you know, we're really in this time where I think the femme, we're bringing the feminine back. However we want to think about that again and the value of that. And so it's like this is really part of that, that shift in society to really value everybody and are just like half of the population.

Else Kramer (00:36:23) - Exactly. And also value everybody, regardless of how their brain works.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:36:28) - Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:36:29) - Yeah. Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:36:30) - 100%. My next card is says building things and I want to talk about this at several appropriate, several, several levels. Right. Like building things. Of course you work with people who build things literally with their hands during your your trainings, but also you are building things for the world. Right. So let's go to our first. What are you building?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:36:53) - Oh, but of my building. Lots of things. Um, actually, right now I'm working on, um. I mean, this is maybe the first, first announcement of this, but it's a business with my partner. Um, it's okay.

Else Kramer (00:37:07) - I'm gonna hang on. I'm going to say, like, big. There's a big reveal in the introduction. Yeah, big reveal during the process.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:37:14) - Um, but we're going to be launching probably in September and soft launching in September, but he's a mental health accredited first dater, so he does mental health training. He's a business improvement specialist. He's kind of a renaissance man.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:37:27) - Um, and we're creating tools and supports. Basically, we're toying around with this, but support for different, different leaders who make a difference, um, definitely make a difference. We're not sure about the word different leaders because it's we want to be kind of inclusive in the difference. Does that make sense? Yes. So just to find out what is the word that people use, because I find that, you know, we're talking about networking earlier as a networking event earlier in the week, and it was like all the neurodivergent and kind of like neurodivergent curious people. We're all hanging out and we're all talking about and, you know, just, you know, the way that you talk. And, um, that was really interesting. And it's like how we find each other because, you know, you and I connected without me putting anything about ADHD and how this magic.

Else Kramer (00:38:17) - Listen, I have become like a Sherlock Holmes for smart neurodivergent people. I just want you for miles away. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:38:25) - Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:38:25) - So how. How do I do that? But still, um. Because when I say different, it's. It's not just neurodivergent. It's also people who might be doing leadership differently. So I actually posted on LinkedIn saying do identify as a different leader and there's comments saying things around the I do leadership differently. I bring playfulness into it. So that's why I'm different. So it's really, um, yeah, finding how do we be inclusive and difference. So we'll see. We'll see how that language goes. But it's definitely that's.

Else Kramer (00:38:55) - And what are you building for them?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:38:57) - So things like serious play certification. But looking at one of the big things that has been so Matt, my partner, he when he comes in to do on the third day of my do a three day certification for like a serious play with a super connect add on which is where we bring in all of the kind of say, expansion packs. Yeah. So he comes and teaches psychological safety. So what we're getting is that there's a lot of people who are interested in mental health first aid, but for facilitators, because it's a very it's an amazing course that you can take that basically teaches you how to deal with a mental health crisis.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:39:35) - So similar to if you're, you know, hit by a car or have an accident, it's how to deal with a mental health crisis rather than a physical one, which we don't really get trained in as much. So it's becoming more of a thing.

Else Kramer (00:39:47) - I wish Oh my God, I can't believe this is becoming a thing. That's amazing. Yeah. So usually if everyone would get like their mental health first diploma, like I had to do suicide prevention for coach training, of course, but that was pretty much it. But I mean, if all the humans would be able to like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:40:03) - It's like talking openly about mental health. So getting rid of the stigma, I mean that's a big part of it is just being able to ask people what's going on. Yeah. Um, and so that's just a general like, you know, like physical first aid is a general thing. But the reason I started, the reason I did my, my training initially was because it was like, well.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:40:24) - The safe space that gets created and the vulnerability that gets created. When we're doing Super Connect and Lego Series play, I need to really respect that and hold that space properly. Thankfully, I've never had anything happen that's been a crisis, but I feel confident enough to know what to do. And a lot of the Lego series play practitioners that I talk to because that's not part of the standard LSP Lego Series play curriculum. They're like, you know, what do I do if someone cries? What do I do? This happens, right? Yeah. And so it's like creating this thing that for facilitators to learn how to create psychological safety, but also practical things like, you know, if you're working with a team who's is there a mental health first aid or at at the organization or is there an HR person that you should connect them with? So just knowing all of these things. So that's one of them is building that into as a as an offering. Mental health first aid training is another thing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:41:23) - So just things like that, basically almost like around human connection. So what you need is someone making a difference around human connection. So those. So why do you think.

Else Kramer (00:41:32) - Why do you think leaders need this? Why is it important?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:41:36) - Why is it important to create psychological safety? Why is it.

Else Kramer (00:41:38) - Important for a leader? Yeah. I mean, I know and we've already agree on this, but, I mean, you may need to sell it to some people. Y y mean, leaders are busy. They have to do all the things and keep things running. And now they also need to do psychological safety. I mean.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:41:54) - So, I mean, from a purely business perspective, I think it's if if the outcomes you get when people feel safe and like but not like a fake like you have to, you can't feel fake safe, you can't fake it. Right.

Else Kramer (00:42:07) - So like a token gesture, Oh, there's a person you can talk to if you're upset. Yeah, you can't.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:42:11) - Do you can't do tokenism. It doesn't work. But if you are getting people to feel genuinely safe because everybody is consenting, everybody is, you know, part of it, um, the outcomes you can get in terms of insight into a problem or clarity around a solution to the problem or just getting people on the same page. Like I've done workshops where an organisation will come in. So this isn't the training, but this is if you book me to come and run a session for you, come in saying, we're really stuck on this thing and we've worked with these people and we've worked with these people and we don't know what to do about this problem. And then in the session, we actually find out that it's not this isn't the problem. It's something else.

Else Kramer (00:42:53) - Beneath, right? Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:42:55) - They have no one spelt okay to to really go there. Yeah. And then it's like, oh that's the thing. Oh and now that we know that we're actually really, we're already actually aligned about that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:43:06) - And so if we do this instead and it's like this huge breakthrough breakthrough through this, this thing that feels like it's been a problem and been stuck for for a year and, and they just couldn't.

Else Kramer (00:43:17) - Get to it because of the lack of safety. They said, Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:43:20) - So that's from a purely business perspective. But I think doing the right thing. Yeah, totally. You know, if you.

Else Kramer (00:43:26) - Want to be good, like more morally. Ethically, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:43:30) - Yeah. And also, you know, there's a lot of talk about the great resignation, you know, lots of turnover. Like if you keep your employees happy and keep the people in your team happy and safe. And it's just there's just so many reasons that it's it's good.

Else Kramer (00:43:44) - Yeah, totally agree. And also just mental health like well-being if someone feels safe at work and sadly I think so few people do.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:43:54) - Yeah yeah I agree.

Else Kramer (00:43:56) - So there's a lot of work to be done there as well. Which brings me to my next card innovation.

Else Kramer (00:44:01) - I mean, I was looking at what you've done like or at least a couple of the things you've done in your life. I think this is pretty much a red thread, huh? Like innovation for you constantly thinking, what? Okay, I have this now I have this education or I have this tool now how can I change it? So tell me a bit more about that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:44:17) - Yeah, Yeah. Well, I mean, innovation is one of those words that's kind of become a buzzword, right? Right.

Else Kramer (00:44:22) - It's like authenticity. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:44:24) - It's like it means everything and nothing, Right?

Else Kramer (00:44:26) - So what does it mean to you?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:44:28) - Well, I think it's so I do I write an innovation and tech column for the business news here in Western Australia. So I have to think, you know, what, what passes the the the innovation test. But it's almost like, what can I sneak in to, to be innovative, right? Because not just about tech. So it's really if you're doing solving a problem in a new way.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:44:50) - So you wouldn't think about this being innovation. But here in Australia we've just legalized MDMA and psilocybin for the treatment of treatment resistant depression and PTSD. I think the first country in the world to do that, and I've written a few articles in my innovation column about that because that's a really innovative way to solve this problem with mental health that we haven't we haven't it hasn't evolved. It hasn't innovated in, what, 30, 40 years? Yeah. Um, so things like that, what's actually really moving the needle in a new way And I mean it is kind of old because there was a lot of research in the 7060s and 70s.

Else Kramer (00:45:29) - Yeah. But then of course it was bad political reasons.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:45:32) - Yeah. Um, but still, so it's things like that. What is a new way of solving this really sticky problem? So that's, that's what innovation is to me.

Else Kramer (00:45:40) - Yeah. And how do you do that? How do you innovate? What does that look like?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:45:45) - How do I innovate? By being professionally curious? Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:45:49) - It's like I can't help it.

Else Kramer (00:45:51) - Yeah. So just like most, you just live and you breathe and you innovate.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:45:58) - Yeah, I think asking really good questions is a really good. That's the other secret to Super Connect is is asking really good questions because it is about the Lego, but it's also not about the Lego. It's about the questions. And give me an.

Else Kramer (00:46:12) - Example of that. What what does that look like?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:46:15) - Good question. Yeah, so I did and this is the thing is that really good question in the context of like Lego serious point and super connect really simple questions can be really powerful. So did a session that was at a conference for a very large group of people. I think it's about a hundred people. Wow. And it was exploring diversity. And the questions were something like build what it feels like to be included or create what it feels like to be included and create what it feels like not to be included. But what came out of that was I found out that two people came out as gay to their leadership during that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:46:53) - Wow. From just from those questions. And so it it doesn't have to be it just was a well thought out question and it was designed to really explore that. It wasn't specifically meant to make anything happen other than to have people discuss and talk about openly about diversity and what we can do to support it. Um, but it was, you know, working with the organizers of the conference to go, Okay, what's the outcome that we want people to have and designing it from there? Um. But I think it's just it's, yeah, it's being really thoughtful about why I'm asking the question, what's the outcome that I want and what's the best way to ask it and what's the order that you want to ask the question in? Yes, for sure.

Else Kramer (00:47:33) - Yeah. And I think you said it's a simple question. I think most powerful questions are very simple.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:47:38) - Yeah, that's deceptively so.

Else Kramer (00:47:40) - Deceptively so I think I mean, you know, I've a background in philosophy. Um, if anybody else, like what is the use of philosophy? It is.

Else Kramer (00:47:48) - You get to learn how to ask great questions and usually they are really simple. And so I was like, huh, Yeah, let me think about it.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:47:56) - It's funny because also my undergraduate degrees in philosophy and it's one of those things where it's I think it's served us both very well, even though it seems like a very old thing to study. Yes, It's it's it's, you know, it's innovation, not innovation. It's, um, you know, if I'd gone to study digital media or new media, it was called the time when I was going through university, everything would have learned it would be obsolete. But philosophy and how to ask a good question.

Else Kramer (00:48:22) - It's always relevant. It's always pertinent. Yeah. Yeah. Although I have to say I wouldn't recommend it as a first degree now, I think. I mean, I think for me it was like, you know, pretty intense and also so theoretical like. But then I've made my life applied philosophy, basically, so that's all right, Yeah.

Else Kramer (00:48:39) - Activist Yeah, Which brings me to my next card. Freedom.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:48:43) - Oh, wow.

Else Kramer (00:48:44) - Is that an important value for you? Oh, for.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:48:46) - Sure.

Else Kramer (00:48:47) - How can I even ask the question like, oh, smart people. Well, smart, creative people. So how do you create it?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:48:56) - Well, I think, you know, going back to that, the Neurodivergent and ADHD, that's for me to have freedom with, to be able to do things the way I needed to do it without having to ask or to justify myself or, you know, to fight for it. And that was making my own business and my own company to be able to have the freedom to do things the way that worked for me. Um, so, yeah, I'd say that that's okay.

Else Kramer (00:49:23) - I'm just going to get the next card as well and we can cover them together, which is money. You're asking all the good questions, and for a lot of people they think they can't be free because money. Right.

Else Kramer (00:49:34) - So how do you do that? How do you manage?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:49:37) - Well, I think their secret for that is going back to what we were talking about before, about finding your thing. Yeah. The thing that is really your thing. Um, because when I. So I do, I do. I also help serious player practitioners with the business side. So I do business strategy for LSP people because, you know, Lego is easy, right? Like, that's easy and you can use it for anything. Um, but it's finding what is your particular niche. So actually one of my, my students who did my Lego series play certification is now using she's combined her philosophy education training.

Else Kramer (00:50:16) - Another philosopher.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:50:17) - Yeah. So brick. So. Oh my God. She works with double double twice exceptional kids. So I think gifted and or in disability. Yeah. Um. Or neurodivergent. Um. But her that that's the that's her unique thing. And she was told and she's shared with this with me that, you know, all these people have said to her, you know, this isn't a good idea.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:50:44) - You shouldn't do this business and or not. And she's her business is going gangbusters.

Else Kramer (00:50:48) - I love.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:50:48) - It. I love it. Her name is Amanda Rogers and she's yeah, look it up for lots of brick. But it's there's something really magic and I've noticed this with the people that I coach is that when you find this thing, you just know in all your being that this is your thing. And if that's you have that knowingness and I think that's where we look at any really successful entrepreneur. They talk about how failure never came into their mind and always wondered, how is it that you could just be so bold and fearless? And once I experienced, Oh, this is actually my thing, I was able to go get how they are able to have that fearlessness. It's like once you've tapped into that, I think that's a really kind of like secret thing, secret sauce thing that we're not told about entrepreneurship. Yes. We never, never give up and just have tenacity. But no, it's actually you have to be attuned into what that thing is.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:51:39) - That is your thing. And really. Going with that. Yeah. And then it's like.

Else Kramer (00:51:44) - And then it's like magic. You can't not do it. Yeah, right. It's sort of non-negotiable. Like, for me, I can't. I mean, it's just not even a question. Yeah. You know, of doing something else. It's like, No, this is the thing. I do want to add to that, that it can change during your life, right? Because some people get sort of hung up on like, I have to find the one thing this isn't it like or if I found a thing, I have to stick with it. No, it evolves right in you of all like my my thing was teaching art for a very long time in photography. And that was perfect for seven years. And then it morphed into something else. So people, you get to grow still even after you've had the thing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:52:25) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. There can be many things. And maybe the one that the things are actually one thing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:52:32) - Yes. Because like you, I did, you know, did philosophy, did a PhD. It worked as a journalist at a teacher, all these different things. And I still do all of those things. But the one thing that brings them all together is that it's all about connection and curiosity. And so, yeah, don't you don't have to get stuck.

Else Kramer (00:52:46) - Exactly. So it's all about finding the theme or the red thread or whatever it is. And I love that you're saying this because I have to like remind coaching clients of this quite regularly who are like, but I wasted this education because I'm doing something completely different, etcetera. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. You have this amazing no and you have this amazing toolkit. You have these skills, you have this knowledge like my Aikido, which I never thought I would use. Like outside the Aikido Dojo has been like the most incredible tool for coaching, for feeling energies, for working with groups of people and knowing what they need in the moment.

Else Kramer (00:53:23) - Right? For being a speaker on the stage of being completely grounded like it's been invaluable. I had no idea. I just was super frustrated and wanted to like, let that energy rip. That is how I've found that keto. But it just plays into everything I do now. So whatever you feel, pull toward, I guess it's a good sign that you are approaching.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:53:44) - Yeah, I would agree. Yeah. Okay.

Else Kramer (00:53:47) - Speaking of like anger and frustration, power. Let's talk about power because that's kind of a taboo topic and we can approach it from lots of different angles. Like as a facilitator, we have power, right? But also I think especially women, but I think also a lot of more introverted men and very like very many smart people, shy away from power. Like, I don't want power that is like for bad people. So I love to chat about that. What are your.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:54:19) - Thoughts? Oh, that's again, I'm thinking about the Barbie movie that went to see yesterday because it's it is really about.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:54:31) - It is about power. That's the whole movie, really. Um, and the. I don't want to spoil this too much if you haven't seen spoilers.

Else Kramer (00:54:40) - Haven't seen it yet.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:54:42) - But, you know, one of the ways that let's say that they they cause transformation in the movie is through talking about the paradox of being a woman and all these like contradictory expectations. A lot of them are really about power. Yeah. And. Yeah. Mean I'm not sure what more to say about power.

Else Kramer (00:55:03) - Do you actually, are you aware of the power you hold, for example, and are you comfortable being powerful? And does what is powerful even mean to you?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:55:15) - I've actually thought about that. This is a good question.

Else Kramer (00:55:18) - Okay. While you're thinking, I'll say a little bit about what it is like for me, because power is also influence, right? And the ability to make an impact to me. So if I have power, it doesn't think we associate power too much with the ability to control other people.

Else Kramer (00:55:31) - Yeah, right. And that's where our brain goes right away. Instead of, wow, if I have power, if I'm powerful, I can make a massive difference in the world and I get to choose what that power looks like. And it doesn't need to mean I get to control other people, but it can mean that I have the capacity to reach a lot of people, but also maybe to like have a very tangible impact, maybe even on my local community, because people listen to me because either I have a ton of money or I know the right people. And I think you can totally ignore this and say, don't play those games. But if people like I always say like, we need more good people with both money and power and willing to play, maybe change the rules even if we want to change the world. So that's my $0.02.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:56:25) - I'd have to I have to agree with you because if you think about the go giver mentality versus the go getter mentality, that's about power as well.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:56:33) - And what kind of power do you want? So do you want do you want money and power as in control? Or do you want to. And be able to help people in the power to help and to change the world and make a living doing it, because I don't think we need to have the scarcity mentality of like, I'm trying to make the world better so I'm not going to get paid. And that's like a lack of.

Else Kramer (00:56:53) - Can we please stop that right now?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:56:55) - Because we don't need to do that, Right. Because you're not, you're not. It's lack of self respect or self worth. And, you know, I'm saying that as someone who's like had to really work through that. Yeah, it's a very.

Else Kramer (00:57:06) - False road also to burnout in resentment.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:57:09) - Abundant abundance mentality, like let's have abundance mentality rather than scarcity. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think there is that that power to make a difference. Um. I think that's also what it's part of the feeling of what I'm meant to be like.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:57:25) - This is what I meant to be doing because. It's again, it's like after I've done, you know, serious potty training or I've done a coaching session or I've done, you know, that workshop with, with all those people where that huge shift happened for, for a team. Um, it's this feeling of almost like there's this power that isn't me. Like I was just there. It works. Helping you like, yeah. So it's not, it's not about me or my ego or my me having control. It's about me enabling this thing. Yeah. And there is a power in that and. When I feel really aligned with what I'm meant to be doing, that's when I feel well. Like I look and I see what's happened for people. Because even in know doing the certification, the three day certification where you're learning about Lego and learning it, how to use it in your business or your workplace or whatever it is you're doing with it. People also have this profound transformation in themselves, and it's interesting how whoever comes there in a point seems to be where they're like, I'm making this transition where I'm either making this decision to to partner with myself better or to leave this job and start my own company or.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:58:37) - Launch this new thing and it's like this huge personal growth thing that happens. And I would say facilitation, like the truest form of facilitation, is you're not coming in with an agenda. You're coming in just a whole space to enable what is happening in the room rather than I'm going to come in and I have this plan like you have to have something in your back pocket. Of course you.

Else Kramer (00:58:58) - Have a plan, right? But not like for what people should experience and what their growth should look like. It's the same with coaching. If you're like, Oh, you should change this way, then that's not a great way to coach people. It's not.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:59:10) - Empowering people. No. And it's funny, similar to you with Aikido, I have been studying training in an energy healing modality called Kibera Energetics, and it's basically a mix of cranial sacral massage and shamanism. And the reason I love it is that it's taken a lot of the. Healing modalities because most of the things that we've lost, the feminine, it's just the yang.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (00:59:39) - And so Kat Cooper, who created this method, she's taken them and made them brought the feminine back. And so her approach that she teaches is instead of going, I'm going to come and fix you, I know what's best for you. It's I'm going to hold space. I'm going to be as present and grounded and. Almost like set. Set the show by example what you can be.

Else Kramer (01:00:08) - And you can like explore instead of like lead, right?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:00:12) - Or Yeah, yeah. So I'm just holding space. So the reason I started studying was like, this is really a great tool for being a better facilitator, right? Yeah, because it's all these things you can do and people will say, you know, I feel like there's something more going on that's not just about the Lego so people can feel it. Um, but it's, it's that same thing of like, I'm not actually doing anything. Like she talks about it being the, you know, the, the art of doing nothing. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:00:38) - But there's a huge power in that and it's maybe it's like the yin power rather than the yang. Power is just the power is creating the space for people to, to do what they need to do rather than you putting it on them.

Else Kramer (01:00:50) - For me, it isn't like it doesn't break down into like male or female, but it's just I feel like I become a channel for something that is so much bigger than me, right? I kind of disappear and whatever needs to come through comes through, which is so fun and so and there's so much ease. And when you work that way and when I started teaching workshops, I was exhausted afterwards. Right. But once you sort of build that trust and you can just let things happen, it's so, so it can actually be incredibly energizing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:01:20) - Yeah. You feel energized at the end. That's a huge yes, exactly. How do you feel after.

Else Kramer (01:01:25) - That's a great test. Okay. But we have to talk about something. But I've been dying to talk about, which is mean.

Else Kramer (01:01:31) - Can you guess? Like let go? Of course. Like why Lego? How how did you start? I think people listening to the podcast, if they don't know by now that I'm obsessed with Lego, what have you been doing? Why?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:01:44) - Why Lego? Well, Lego was my favorite toy as a kid. And my favorite it was it was the medieval one, The Castle Lego.

Else Kramer (01:01:54) - Oh, my God. Have you seen the new iterations?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:01:57) - Yes.

Else Kramer (01:01:59) - All of.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:01:59) - Them.

Else Kramer (01:02:01) - You have all of them? Yeah, have.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:02:02) - All of them. And we're slowly working through building them. So we're working on this. This space. That was my third favorite one. The space one. Yeah. So, yeah, the 99th anniversary where they brought back all the classic stuff. Yes. From the 90s, the 80s and 90s. Um, so I love that as a kid and it was kind of like the only thing my parents really let me, you know, we're okay with me doing as a kid because I also loved video games and the internet and those are things that I wish I would stop doing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:02:30) - But Lego was okay because it wasn't on the on a screen. Yeah. Um, so I, you know, as I got older, I kind of stopped playing with Lego, but, um, I found out. Don't know how I found out, but maybe through some of my facilitator friends that there was this thing called Lego Serious play. And I was like, So you can use Lego for business purposes. Um, so Instagram magically showed me it was like the algorithms, usually they don't show me useful things. No, same algorithms think all sorts of strange things about me, um, based on the ads that I get. But it was right. It showed me someone in Path who had just done his Lego series play training, and I was like, okay, I need to ask this guy what it's all about. And he gave me a demo and he trained with Michael Fearn as well. And so he connected me with Michael Fearn, who does training in Australia. He's amazing. His whole thing is, um.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:03:31) - Being very much around finding your method in the method. So yes, there's, there's different styles you can train with. There's more like this is how it is and you don't deviate from it, which is obviously not my style, but my, my real interest in it was, you know, I was using games and playfulness and game design as tools for all of the outcomes they talked about around, you know, clarity and connection and curiosity and trust. Um, but it was really hard work to create a new game every time. And also there was a lot of misunderstanding and there's still a lot of, you know, it's like, oh games. My, my son does that and I wish you would stop.

Else Kramer (01:04:08) - Yeah, that's so cute.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:04:09) - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just was like the right people just didn't understand. And there was just so much education that need to be done. And it was exhausting. So it was like, What if I could use Lego to do what I want to do? And the transformations and the coaching and all of the things.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:04:25) - What if I can use Lego instead? And that's what happened. So it's just, yeah. So magic.

Else Kramer (01:04:32) - Yeah. And how I mean, so you signed up for certification. Did you immediately feel like you were at home or was there a bit of sort of, oh, this is this will take some adjustment. What was that?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:04:44) - No, it was amazing. It was great.

Else Kramer (01:04:45) - Yeah. But it was.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:04:46) - Really weird because for some reason. So I had to go to Melbourne to do it. Yeah. And I couldn't sleep. Like I would wake up every, every hour. Um, and so it was, well, I think it was, I think I'm sensitive to EMF and it was like I was right in the CBD and there's just, you know, all these people and Wi-Fi and all these things and that's the only thing I can think it was. But I literally was sleeping and waking up every hour. Oh my gosh. So I was like sleep deprived. I was drinking tons of coffee, which I don't usually do, but it was still amazing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:05:16) - So maybe it was just like, you know, the excitement, all these things.

Else Kramer (01:05:19) - Excited energy, right? Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:05:21) - Yeah. So it was despite that or because of it or all of those things that would just felt like, wow, this is my mind is being blown. And then it was it was actually when I started to really figure out my, my method in the method and my interest in connection and was using as a um, it's another funny thing about me is I'm a trained dating and relationship coach, which goes to the human connection stuff. Oh my god.

Else Kramer (01:05:47) - It's a very particular way to be that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:05:49) - But was using it had a dating product that it was a tool for dating, which I've kind of, you know, and launched it and it will probably come back in another form. But it did mean hang on from that Lego.

Else Kramer (01:06:01) - For dating like that is gold. Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:06:05) - Well, now that I've retired it, people are like, Can you use this for dating? And I'm like, Yep.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:06:09) - So now I actually am coaching people and using it as a tool for dating. So it's, it's funny. Yeah. But it's just, you know, how do you, um, yeah. Finding my own method in that, um, and it was right before Covid, so it was very interesting timing for all of this in terms of human connection or not.

Else Kramer (01:06:28) - Yeah, Yeah. And also how do you also teach it online or just in person?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:06:33) - I am about to launch an online super connect only. So the difference really between super Connect and serious play is that, yes, it's really focused on better conversations and human connections. Yeah. But it's if you are a serious play facilitator, you'll note you'll know that there's different techniques. So the build a tower with you in it that says something about you is called an individual build or individual creation. So it's just you build it individually, Um, and then you can go on and do a whole bunch of other things where you take individual builds and create them together and do a shared one and do all sorts of fancy things with that which can take like a whole day.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:07:13) - And you, it's amazing what you can do. But with super connect, it's, it's just entirely those individual builds and it's really about creating connection. And so there's people who don't need to learn the rest of the Lego series play. They just want to use it as a tool for mentoring or a tool for speed dating. I had a dating coach come to one of my trainings, so, um, it's something that could could be taught online. I've had a lot of people wanting to to do that. So that's the next thing is super connect will be an online course that if you just want to learn a bit of Lego serious play or you just want to have a new way to connect or that's the thing that's going to be available.

Else Kramer (01:07:55) - And will you hopefully.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:07:56) - This year.

Else Kramer (01:07:57) - Do they didn't have to buy their own Lego or what does that look like? I'm super curious.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:08:02) - Oh, that's that's a very good question because it's it's a challenge because because it's open source. Lego has an updated their official Lego Series play kit since 2010.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:08:17) - Wow. So because we're all innovating, we, um, we buy those kits, but we adapt them. So I buy those kits and then I will add other things into them. Lego friends are really great for making your Lego sets a lot more diverse. And inclusive. Yeah. So I. I, um. You can buy Lego and you can do it yourself. So if I'm training you online, you could just get it. But people who work with me in Australia, I'll provide custom kits. So I have a kit called a spark kit, which is for two people. It comes with a set of cards. Um, and it's just yeah, so it's the cards that I would say really the thing that people want, you can use it with any Lego, but it comes with a special, um, special little kid of Lego that's designed for two, 2 or 3 people. Um, so yeah, it is, it is an interesting space because of Legos. Stock is constantly changing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:09:11) - So yeah, yeah, yeah.

Else Kramer (01:09:14) - And which keeps it interesting as well, I guess, because you constantly have to improvise.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:09:19) - Yeah. I mean, it's easy for me when I'm running workshops because I can just I know how to make a kit that or, you know, for the number of people or the outcome, but it's being able to standardize something and say always be able to provide the same thing. That's the challenge. Yeah. So that's something I think is an ongoing problem for the community is Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:09:39) - To solve.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:09:40) - Yeah, yeah. And half the time this stuff is sold out. So for during Covid it was sold out for like 2 or 3 years. You couldn't get any of the basic Lego series play kit. So amazing. Yeah. Wow.

Else Kramer (01:09:53) - Wow. Okay. This is I have I'm. This is such a dangerous conversation for me because I'm already having so many ideas of things I want to create and problems I want to solve. And of course, another certification to add to the already very long list.

Else Kramer (01:10:08) - Right. Do you have a routine like a rituals? What what does your day look like? Are specific things you do to be more productive or to stay focused?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:10:22) - I have just started this new journal that's for the fast brain ADHD journal. Um, and I'm really actually really loving it because it's designed so that you have a week plan every week. So I've set on my calendar every Monday. 9:00 I have to go to a, I don't have to get to go to a cafe and plan my week and okay, hang on about it.

Else Kramer (01:10:48) - Go to cafe. Why?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:10:51) - Um, because it's almost like a treat. Yeah. For me to go to a cafe, and it's like the disruption of the habit. So it's like I go there and it's like somehow I'm in a different space. I love it being at home. Yes.

Else Kramer (01:11:03) - There's so much signs around this, right? Like that. Sometimes you need to just move to a different space. Like I have five tables for different activities and I just moved to.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:11:11) - Different table that.

Else Kramer (01:11:12) - Yeah, it's a bit like it's, it's very luxurious. It also, it's also very expensive. But I'm happy to pay that amount of money to just reset my mind. But also going to a cafe can be a great way to reset your state and also of course kill distractions. Yeah. Okay so you go to cafe, you plan your week.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:11:28) - Yeah. And I've been experimenting with going to a different cafe every week. I don't know how sustainable that will be, but, you know, it's like that little fun ness of. Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:11:38) - Adventure.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:11:39) - Yeah. Um, and then the journal is really great because each week or each day is slightly different. So the to do list is slightly different, like similar enough that it's going to keep you on a routine but different enough that you're not going to get bored. This is the best part. The best part about it is that the books come in a month book so you don't have a 12 month thing. And the idea behind that is that if you stop doing it, then you get the whole, I didn't do it anymore, so I'm going to give us you just go, I'm just going to start a new book and there's 12 different colors and the book is all really tactile and just like it's designed to be.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:12:16) - Really? Yeah. So this is like I'm three weeks in two weeks in now. Three weeks in. Yeah. Um, and I'm just finding, I'm really, really loving that. So it's like how to that's the challenge I've always had is I need a routine, but I hate routine. Yes. So this is a way to go. Okay, well, I'm going to every Monday at 9:00 or maybe it's a bit later if I, you know, if I have something I can't get out of or can't move. So sometimes it's 11 depending. Um, but it's always Monday and it's always going to be at a cafe, maybe different. So it's like, how can you have a different routine? But it's a different routine. So which is how the journal was designed. I love it. I think, yeah.

Else Kramer (01:12:55) - This is a great example of like how to work with your mind, right? Rather than against it because so many people with ADHD try to do it like the boring, predictable way and try to like schedule everything in their calendar and then never stick to it.

Else Kramer (01:13:07) - Hate themselves more by those journals. I think if I if we were in a room with all the listeners and said, okay, can the people who have started a journal and then sort of given up on it like more ten, ten times raise their hands, I think almost everyone in the room would be like, Yep, that's me. Like have both of them. So I love the idea of monthly. So good. Yeah. And then what do you do to like keep yourself focused?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:13:32) - So I would say meditation and rock climbing and yoga are like the three things. And so I have to do some kind of movement every day. I'm not going to say have to. I get to do well.

Else Kramer (01:13:45) - I always say like, I'm like a dog that needs to be walked. So, I mean, yes, I get to but it's very important for my mental health and also for the way am around other people and. Yeah. Excuse me. How productive I am. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:13:59) - Yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:13:59) - And I love rock climbing because so I do bouldering, which is a type of rock climbing that you don't have ropes. And there's something about that, which is, you know, if you fall, if you, you know, if you don't. When you're climbing with ropes, you can just stop and the rope will hold you. Yeah, but with with bouldering, if you stop, you fall or you. You have to hold yourself there.

Else Kramer (01:14:21) - Yeah. You start shaking and it will get very uncomfortable.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:14:23) - But it's also fun and it's a bit more. It feels more dangerous, even though I don't think it actually is because you have these big mats at the bottom. But the research is finding that rock climbing and bouldering are actually it better if as good as if not better than anxiety and depression medication? I'm sure they are.

Else Kramer (01:14:43) - Oh my God, the exercise.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:14:45) - But it's the if you're not present in your body, if you're ruminating, if you're doing all of the things, you can't be climbing.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:14:53) - And so it's you're going to fall. You're going to, you know, mess up. And it's just not going to be satisfying. But there's just not only, you know, being able to be present and being on the wall if you want to climb, but there's something around. There's such a supportive community of people who you go and they'll they'll help you to figure out how to to climb and a really good way like a really positive way, a non-competitive way. There's people who are like Olympic level athletes to come at my gym that will give you tips. And it's just really this beautiful camaraderie. Yeah. But also it's like you can go in and you can be working on their called problems, working on a climb, um, where you come in maybe three times and each time you get a little bit better, a little bit better and you get a little bit further and it's like, Oh, can you just move your hand this way or move your foot this way? And someone might give you a little tip that just unlocks and it's like.

Else Kramer (01:15:48) - It's a big puzzle as well.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:15:50) - Yeah, it's like video games for your body. But no matter how bad your day is, if you can go and have a little, you know, actually reach the top where got a little bit further like.

Else Kramer (01:15:59) - Hacks this part of the of the yeah yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:16:02) - Yeah. So it's just it's like no matter how bad my day is, I can go bouldering and I'll feel better.

Else Kramer (01:16:07) - I love this. I think it has so many components that I then recognize from like for example, weapons training that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:16:14) - That's so.

Else Kramer (01:16:14) - Cool. Right. But again, you, I mean, I still miss it because you feel so alive, right? You feel you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:16:21) - Feel.

Else Kramer (01:16:22) - If you're not present, you. You're gonna get hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Real bad. And if it's wooden people thinking, like what? What is. Am I now in a slasher movie? No, no, no. I trained with wooden wooden weapons, but still, it hurts. Like if they hit you with them.

Else Kramer (01:16:38) - Um, so it's a sense of aliveness, but also what I love that you're, you're saying about this and I think it's the same when you're learning a musical instrument, for example, there is so many layers, right? You start to resolve a puzzle at a certain level. You're like, Oh, if I just tilt my hands slightly like this, Oh my God, this makes a massive difference to my cut with the sword, right? And then if I change my stance this, this way, and then you get to that level, and then next, maybe there'll be something internal that clicks or that, like, you know, in your thinking, like, how do I even approach this cut? And then you get to another level and there's so many layers, it never gets boring. Yeah. And that is, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:17:16) - And it's such a mindset thing too. Like I, um, I hadn't been climbing for a few weeks, um, for a variety of reasons. And so my first climb back, it was like, Oh, I'm feeling not strong and I'm feeling whatever.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:17:31) - And then I was like, No, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to be amazing. I'm amazing, I'm strong, I'm healthy, I'm all these, you know, it's changing the mindset. Yeah. And it was because I do that because I know that it makes a difference. I can actually see myself go from I can't reach it to I can and there's just so much that's mental and it's just such a practice of the mental mindset. Not that's redundant, but the mindset, um, that you just reminds you of it because you actually see physically. So it's that really great feedback. Yeah. Because don't think you always get that feedback like directly about your mindset. But just to go, you know what, you've been not climbing be easy on yourself but also like believe that you can and it makes such a huge difference.

Else Kramer (01:18:10) - So I think all smart humans should have something like this. I don't care what it is, right? Whether it's No, but it could be pottery.

Else Kramer (01:18:17) - It's a similar thing, right? You have to do something with your body and you have to learn a skill, but you also get super challenged, frustrated, all the things. And you have to be very present to it, whether it's rock climbing, martial arts. But it's amazing for your mindset, your confidence, your mental health, like all the things, it is priceless and you can do it for the rest of your life.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:18:37) - Yeah, I agree.

Else Kramer (01:18:39) - That's so good. I'm just looking at the time. Oh my God. Like I have so many cards left and now I have to, like, decide forever. I know we could do this for, like, five hours. Okay. Chat ChatGPT. Oh, yeah. Is it the end of the world of fantasy? Like, how do you see it?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:19:02) - Um, probably all of those things. Um, yeah. I mean, I'm really fascinated by AI, and so I did, I did a keynote recently at a conference for the Marketing Associates Association here in Western Australia who are very concerned about what's the, what's the future with, with generative AI.

Else Kramer (01:19:21) - They should be as marketeers.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:19:23) - Yeah. Well, and I think the, the big thing in that is really talking about like what is generative AI versus transformative AI and what are the really human things that we still can't replace with, with AI and what are the good things that it can do. So there's a lot in that. Um. So where to start? Um. I think the first one is, is a lot of the headlines that we see around AI is going to do these these things. It's going to destroy humanity. Those are very valid concerns. But not to confuse them with generative AI, which is where we are now. So gender generative AI is kind of like, um, almost like the best. The average of the best is just copying. Yeah, it's just copying what humans have already created. It's not actually creating anything new. It's not really, it's not actually innovating. Um, and there's a lot that we can do with that, but that's not what the, the AI experts are concerned about.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:20:24) - That's, that's not the.

Else Kramer (01:20:26) - Singularity quite yet.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:20:27) - No, that's not the singularity. Um, and that that's where people are concerned. And I think there is we, you know, who knows if we can actually ever create. A consciousness that's smarter than humans. It's possible, but we don't know.

Else Kramer (01:20:44) - What does smarter then mean? Mean we? Yeah. You know.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:20:48) - There's so many questions. Yeah. Um, but what I think is really so, yeah, there's a lot of concerns around that. And how do we teach it and what does it learn. And, and, and if we teach it like we're already seeing, there's a video I shared on LinkedIn about how if you put in on into mid journey like show a CEO, it shows a white.

Else Kramer (01:21:09) - Yeah. White man.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:21:10) - Yeah. And so there's because it's the, you know the average of the best.

Else Kramer (01:21:14) - And I wouldn't say it's the average of the best is the average of the dominant the dominant paradigm in tech.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:21:22) - In that case, it's not the best.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:21:23) - Right. It's the what's the how are we It's.

Else Kramer (01:21:27) - It's just a prejudice. The prejudice of the people who built it. Yeah. Yeah. And the prejudice of the people dominating the interwebs.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:21:34) - Yeah. And so if all of the images we show, like if you look at movies or of, you know, unfortunately movies, for example, most of the CEOs would be white guys, right? So that if that's what we're creating as humans and that's what we're using to train AI, then that's going to come out of it. Yes. And so if that is how we train, whatever becomes if it does become sentient, then we do have a problem. Um, and so. I think the big part of that is to remind us that, you know, there's a flip side to that is that it is what we train it. It is what I is people. And that means we still have control. That means we can still influence what happens and still change what happens. And so it's just remembering.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:22:18) - That. We are creating this. We're not creating. We're making those decisions.

Else Kramer (01:22:23) - But I'm actually publishing an interview next week at the time of recording with someone who is creating like a think tank for people who want to work on like the input to AI and making it more inclusive. So lots of people are fighting to make that, you know, better. But what I am super curious about because I think, um, like ChatGPT can also be an amazing tool for play and fun and experimentation. Yes. Yeah. So how do you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:22:48) - Get side of it.

Else Kramer (01:22:49) - Right? How do you play with it?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:22:51) - Well, I just find it's a great tool for, you know, being able to, you know, get a draft started for something. So it's like having a creative partner to be able to jam with and get ideas from and refine ideas and get feedback on things. So again, it is going to have a certain set of biases and data that it's trained on. Um, but it can still be a way to ask questions and just continually ask questions and see what the answer is and refine your questions based on the answer.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:23:21) - And it's almost like a way of seeing what the hive mind thinks. Yes. You know, what is the hive mind think is the best way to say this, or maybe it's not the best way, but it's or it's what the hive mind thinks is the best or is the right way. And maybe it isn't. But that provides an alternative opinion to maybe what you have.

Else Kramer (01:23:39) - Exactly right. At least you're not thinking completely in an isolated bubble, um, anymore, as you were. And by the way, I have exactly. I use it last week to come up with some exercises for workshop. And one of them was I was like, This is insane. I'm going to use this. This is a brilliant idea and I never would have thought of it. So it was also kind of humbling. Yeah. So it is a very it can be very creative if you use the right prompts.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:24:05) - I have tried getting it to write questions for Lego, serious play and super connect, but it hasn't worked, which made me feel better because I was like, okay.

Else Kramer (01:24:13) - Yeah, no, I felt awful. I was like, Wow. Like I am now. You know, there's there's a bigger intelligence in the room that, you know, my ego is slightly dented, but that's okay. Or the bigger.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:24:24) - Intelligence is the collective intelligence. Yes, maybe. Right? Totally. The collective human intelligence.

Else Kramer (01:24:30) - Final question. Who inspires you? Who do you think Like, what do you look to for inspiration? Maybe it's authors, maybe it's people in the Lego field. What? Who or what inspires you and keeps you going?

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:24:44) - Well, that's a really good question. Who inspires me? Mm. Because it's hard for me to answer because I feel inspired by so many people all the time and so many things all the time. I'm constantly just so just pick a couple.

Else Kramer (01:25:03) - Like let go of the perfectionism. It's not like we by naming one person you're leaving, you're sort of denying that the other people inspire you. This is just a sample of all the things and people that inspire you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:25:16) - Well, right now I've just started reading like literally three pages into the artist's way, which is so good.

Else Kramer (01:25:23) - Julia Cameron.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:25:25) - Yes.

Else Kramer (01:25:26) - I have just started doing my morning pages again.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:25:28) - Okay, there you go. So there's some synchronicity there. Yeah. Um. And. Yeah, it's interesting because the algorithms again showed me that it was like, you need to need to do this. Um, let's see what else.

Else Kramer (01:25:43) - And for the people who are like, what are these women talking about? Algeria, Cameroon, the artist's way. I think it's already. Is it 40 years old? I mean, it's really. Yes, it's been around forever.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:25:54) - Classic.

Else Kramer (01:25:54) - Yeah. And it works so well. I mean, and it talks about morning pages like journaling in the morning. It's a specific thing. I'm not going to go into it, you know, too much. Look it up on the Internet. And also super fun thing called Artists Date, which is such a great thing. Like you have to basically have playtime with yourself at least once a week and do something that utterly delights you, whether it's going to the pound store and just buying, you know, the stuff to to blow bubbles or going to museum, whatever walks your boat.

Else Kramer (01:26:23) - And to me, it's such a great way to like stay energized and inspired and all the things.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:26:28) - I love it. Okay, I'm going to switch this up and I'm going to I'm going to go from who to what inspires me.

Else Kramer (01:26:34) - Yeah, go.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:26:35) - Ahead. Another thing that I'm really loving right now is there's a set of cards or it's a it's a game, but it's really a set of cards called We're no longer We're Not Strangers Anymore, Huh? And they're really, really good questions. And they have a couples version as well, then expansion pack and a family version. But they're really great questions for you to get to know another person, um.

Else Kramer (01:26:59) - Without it being like super icky because my brain is also like, Oh, that sounds horrible. Well, there's.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:27:03) - There's different layers.

Else Kramer (01:27:04) - There's good to level three.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:27:06) - So like you can like go up or go down in the level of intimacy, which I love. I think that's really great. Esther Perel has a set of cards that have come out as well.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:27:16) - I think it's called Where Where do We Begin? Um, but unfortunately the shipping to Australia is like as much as the cards. It's like more than a.

Else Kramer (01:27:24) - It's a hard right with Europe. Yeah. Distribution of card decks that.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:27:29) - Yeah. It gets a bit.

Else Kramer (01:27:30) - If there's a genius listening to this podcast, you can solve card deck distribution and make it sort of more equitable across the globe. Please get in touch.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:27:41) - And I think also the thing that's really inspiring me is a movement in Australia right now. So there's going to be a referendum on the voice of Parliament. So basically having an Indigenous voice be written into the constitution so closer to what's happened in New Zealand. Yeah. Where so my, I'm actually a Kiwi as well as a Canadian and so my New Zealand passport is in English and Maori. Um, so having more things like that in Australia. And so that's a big discussion going on right now. Um, I personally don't think if you're not indigenous you should vote on it.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:28:18) - Think it should be only indigenous people who get to decide if they want that. But apparently 80% of Australian or 80% of Indigenous people in Australia do want it. So I think that that's something that we need to be voting yes on. Um, but that, that the fact that that's happening and it's well overdue, that step towards healing and reconciliation. So that's inspiring me. A lot of amazing people really advocating for that and supporting that. And, um, and. Just really. It can be a very. It shouldn't be. But a very contentious topic. But just, you know, bringing a lot of explaining emotionally, intellectually why it's important. Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:28:59) - And probably patience, right? Yeah, yeah.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:29:02) - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And compassion. So that's, that's another thing that's inspiring me is that movement and think they haven't announced a date yet but it should be sometime in October that we'll be voting so. Right. Yeah. If you think it's inspiring me right now. Yeah.

Else Kramer (01:29:17) - Good. All right. Where can people find you and what can they find you for? Because I think it's more than one thing, I'm guessing. Yes.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:29:25) - So just my website, which is my. My name Kate Rain School and I do speaker coaching and strategy and business coaching for people who work with Lego. Seriously, we're probably just that will probably be expanded to people who do things differently. And also training for Lego series play and Super Connect, which will be online as I mentioned, and of course launching that new business up next, which will be taking this more globally and adding in mental health first aid and all the tools to work better and more safely with people.

Else Kramer (01:29:59) - So good, so fun. I'll leave links in the show notes so people can just click them so much easier. Thank you so much. I mean, we could talk like another three hours, just about Lego. And maybe we will someday.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:30:12) - Right? Sounds great.

Else Kramer (01:30:13) - Thank you.

Dr Kate Raynes-Goldie (01:30:15) - Thank you.