Episode 87 - Business as an Art Form with Adrian Knight

Hey smart human! Have you ever dreamed of buying companies, improving and optimising them, and selling them again? 

Then you’re going to love this interview with former Paperboy of the Year Adrian Knight.

Adrian is an accomplished acquisition entrepreneur and business turnaround expert, dad to a beautiful three-year-old, and owner of a smart ADHD brain. 

During our conversation, he shares how he has used his smarts, skills and experience to build Spectacular Group - a multi-million revenue group of children’s education companies. 

We dive into how he runs multiple companies with an ADHD brain (hint: boundaries, self-care and trust are some prime ingredients), how finding his purpose changed the way he works, as well his path towards his success - including being down to his last five dollars in San Francisco without a plan B. 

Adrian also shares how he has smartly designed his own curriculum for personal growth - including fun physical challenges. 

We talk about the importance of relationships over numbers, how to build teams and run them with an ADHD mind, his challenges and how he is constantly overcoming them. 

There is so much to learn from and get inspired by - so listen in and be inspired by the story of Adrian Knight…. 

Show Notes

Adrian's website: https://www.sixfigureturnaround.com/

Adrian's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adrianjknight/

Connect with Adrian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adrianjohnknight/

Ready to learn how to Manage your Smart Mind? Then download my free 'Mapping Your Unique Brain' Workbook. Go to:
https://www.coachkramer.org/brainmap to get access.

Are you interested in working with me? Click here.

Come say hi on LinkedIn |Insta | Twitter | FB

Transcript

00:00:02 - All right, Fast Brained Humans, I am delighted to introduce to you Adrian Knight. Welcome, Adrian, to the podcast. 

00:00:10 - Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. 

00:00:13 - And I explained to you we're doing the card game, as always. My first card is what is your biggest frustration? 

00:00:24 - Probably myself. Why? 

00:00:27 - Tell me more. 

00:00:29 - Yeah, undoubtedly, myself is my biggest frustration. I think it's a very acute awareness of my limitations and what I'm not very good at, which is most things, if I'm being truthful, is, yeah, there's a lot of... Okay, hang on, hang on. 

00:00:51 - I'm gonna have to stop you there because you're saying I'm not very good at most things, and yet you have built like a string of very successful businesses. So what is happening here? Is there like an alter ego behind the scenes or what's going on? 

00:01:08 - There's a very good team of people behind me, very good team. And I always, I would, I mean, I can count on one hand, genuinely count on one hand, the things I would say I'm better at than my other skills. But finding good people who have real potential, and helping them to unlock that potential is one of those things I'd count off. So yeah, it's more, it's more them, genuinely. 

00:01:41 - Okay, so back to frustrations, like, what is one characteristic? You're like, if I could change that, I totally would. 

00:01:48 - Me? I'm not a very operational person. So if you think in terms of like logistics, organisation, I'm probably the worst person to be in that type of role. I always try my best, but someone... 

00:02:06 - You and all the ADHD people in the world, right? 

00:02:09 - Yes, exactly. 

00:02:11 - We just can't. 

00:02:13 - Yeah. Yeah. 

00:02:17 - It's a very common, like executive function, functioning can be a real challenge, like just doing admin and being on time and all that kind of stuff. 

00:02:28 - It really is. And yeah, so, so to touch on what you mentioned there, I was diagnosed with ADHD. There's three strands to a, mine stands as three strands to ADHD. And I'm fairly sort of balanced across all of them. But I've recently discovered actually, through my seem to be wife that yeah, there's actually a lot of government aid that can support with that, which I was completely oblivious to. So I'm very, very sort of curious into exploring that and yeah, to see what's there really. 

00:03:03 - And what would you like, if you would like to change the executive function, but what else if you could change another thing, what would that be? When you're saying I'm so frustrated mostly with myself, what specifically frustrates you? 

00:03:16 - Often it's my patience, again, with myself. So wanting to be over there, but you're here and an acceptance of that and that you have to put one foot in front of the other and in order to get over there. 

00:03:35 - It can be so slow, right? 

00:03:38 - Really can. I've got better with it over the years, but Yeah. 

00:03:43 - Do you also have time blindness? Or is your experience of time pretty decent? 

00:03:48 - I'm terrible with time. So we have a running joke in our family, which is called night time. So my surname is night. 

00:03:55 - And for the listeners, this is spelled like, you know, as a knight in shining armour. 

00:04:01 - Yes. K-N-I-T-H-T. And so we run on night time, which is approximately 15 minutes late, like almost to the minute. It's like we're 15 minutes late, no matter how hard I try. Like many a time I've left like an hour early and still end up being late. It's astonishing. 

00:04:23 - And yet you're still managing to do all the things, which is pretty cool. 

00:04:28 - I think so. Yeah. 

00:04:33 - My next card is boundaries. And I think this is a great one, especially because you run a lot of businesses simultaneously, right? Or at least you're sort of overseeing stuff.

00:04:47 - which implies that you need to set a lot of boundaries on your availability and your time, I guess, but also on employees. How do you do that? Do you set boundaries? 

00:04:57 - Yeah, so that's been a personal journey for me. And I've learned a lot about boundaries from personal relationships. So certainly, you know, I'm very happy, well, soon to be married. 

00:05:11 - Congratulations. 

00:05:13 - Thank you. It's a very happy, you know, like, you know, relationship, but in previous relationships, I started to notice a distinct lack of boundaries from myself. And that caused a lot of, well, arguments and conflict between me and previous partners, in part because they were frustrated with the lack of boundaries. And also from my side, like frustrated that they couldn't see these boundaries that I wasn't putting into place. 

00:05:47 - So I've learned a lot from those relationships, which I very clearly bring into my business life as well, because, you know, we have a beautiful three-year-old daughter at home and yeah, there's some very strong reasons, her being the top of that list as to why actually there has to be boundaries. And it's not all about work or business or, you know, anything else of that nature. 

00:06:15 - And what helps you actually learn that? Because you're telling a story as if, you know, one day you realized, oh, this is not working out in my relationships. Now I'm going to do it differently and apply it in my business. That sounds like a slight oversimplification. Like what were the steps to realizing you need to set more boundaries and then implementing it? Because it's very hard for a lot of people. I think it brings up a lot of fear. What if I set a boundary and someone gets mad or someone says, I don't like you anymore? 

00:06:45 - Yeah, I think there, you know, I've learned to look at that slightly differently. So if someone gets mad at a boundary I'm putting in place, which never happens, by the way. 

00:06:55 - Interesting, isn't it? 

00:06:57 - Never happens. But at the beginning, there is a fear that they will get mad. And if you say no to this person, because actually, you know, if they're trying to entice you to go and do something, but actually you just need an hour to yourself, that is absolutely fine. And if that person can't understand that, then there's probably bigger questions to be asking yourself as to, well, why don't they understand that? And taking that a few steps further, you know, is that the type of people I want in my life or my close circle? 

00:07:28 - And so, yeah, though it was very scary at the beginning, but as I started to put those boundaries into place and saw success with, oh, they completely understood that. And in fact, they respected the fact that I needed an hour to myself and that I would show up a better person after that hour, that fear quickly dropped. And then it was like, okay, yeah, these are my boundaries and yeah. 

00:07:53 - And this basically this stuff works, right? 

00:07:58 - It does, yeah, it really does. 

00:08:00 - It's incredible. I was like diagnosed with burnout many, many years ago and I got a coach, I think this was back in the late nineties even. And one of the things she told me was boundaries. And I was like, no, this is never gonna work. And I just started putting them into place. I got so much respect at the office, it was insane. I was like, wow, I wish someone had told me this earlier, but good to know, right? 

00:08:25 - Yeah. It seems so, like, I don't wanna devalue it because it is a big thing when, you know, if and when you're struggling with that, but in hindsight, it seems so simple and almost like, why was I even concerned about that? 

00:08:41 - Why was this a problem? 

00:08:42 - But when you're going through it, it feels much bigger and I can fully relate to anyone who may be struggling with that. And all I would say is, you know, you're worth it. Like it's like, you're worth it. 

00:08:59 - So take some steps. You're worth carving out the time, prioritizing yourself, all the things. 

00:09:03 - Absolutely. Yeah. 

00:09:05 - And I think the reason it's so scary, it does make perfect sense, even though it's easy to sort of overcome it once you've taken the first steps, it's just almost like a physical thing, right? You're nervous. It seems like, no, don't do this. We're gonna die. We're gonna be cast out of the tribe. Nobody will love us. We'll end up under the bridge. 

00:09:22 - Exactly. Everyone's gonna leave me and I'll be alone. So yeah, but it doesn't happen. 

00:09:27 - With a bottle of whiskey or whatever. 

00:09:30 - Yeah. 

00:09:31 - 100%. So you, one of the things you started doing, and we'll probably get to this a bit later, like the backstory of it, but you started buying companies, restructuring them and turning them around, which is fascinating to me because my brain's like, wow, first of all, that sounds super fun. Second, it sounds super scary. So how did you, I can understand how you managed the fun. How did you manage the scary? Or was it not scary to you at all? 

00:10:00 - I still manage the scary every single day. The scary changes. So I'm going through quite, and this past, well, since the, I mean, mid-May really, I've been going through a very sort of significant phase of a business turnaround, quite a large business turnaround that I've been doing. And every day it's been a day of like fear. And today is no exception, like is, but the fear is changing. And I've started to recognize that as you move through that fear and a bit like the boundary, you look back and you think.

00:10:38 - Maybe I was blown out of proportion a little bit. 

00:10:40 - Yeah, was it that bad, right? 

00:10:41 - Was it that bad? And yeah, I just keep reminding myself of that. And that's one of the first components of how I sort of handle that. But also the second component is that I've learned to really structure my day so that I make time for myself and to put myself first for a portion, normally like in sort of the mornings. Because that gives me the clarity and it gives me the energy and it just gives everything to be able to go and deal with that fear more than the actual circumstances. 

00:11:17 - Oh, I love this. 

00:11:18 - I love this. 

00:11:18 - Rather than just running around putting out fires, you are intentionally just carving out time so you can actually show up as like an amazing leader. 

00:11:26 - Yeah, so yeah, essentially yes. And it's just so I can show up as a better version of me that's more equipped to handle situations sort of good or bad, large or small. And since I started taking that approach to my life as a whole, like things started to take off like very quickly after making a decision to do that. And I haven't looked back to be honest. I just had a little bit. 

00:11:57 - And another reason I love it, I have a lot of listeners who are thinking of pivoting, thinking of like leaving their career, sometimes in corporate, whatever it is, and doing something completely different. And I mean, would you say like you're an M&A person or how would you describe? 

00:12:15 - Well, I don't know how to describe myself. It's for some reason I've always, since my late teenage years, I've always had this sort of idea and this dream that what I really wanted to do was to buy and sell businesses. But I mean, as a 17, 18, 19 year old, I certainly didn't see myself as qualified for that. So I went on a bit of a journey until I actually arrived there. And very much a journey of self-discovery, but I worked in corporate for a very long time. I left my corporate role just before turning 30. 

00:12:53 - I started a business, which I saw as a stepping stone to buying and selling because there's certain, I wouldn't necessarily recommend this for everyone, but my thought process at the time was that there's certain lessons that I would learn from starting the business that would do me well for a career in buying and selling companies. And then it was in late 2019 when I found out we were expecting, no, sorry, it was late 2018 when I found out I was expecting my daughter. 

00:13:27 - And in 2019, when I started to really like crystallize in my mind, it's like, I'm gonna do this. And yeah, I haven't looked back and it's been extremely... just a huge amount of fun. 

00:13:48 - I love this. And I love that basically you created your own training program. 

00:13:53 - Yeah. 

00:13:54 - Right? You were like, okay, I can learn these things. I can start my company, learn the first things and then learn as I go along, which I think a lot of smart people don't realize that they have the capacity to do that, right? You don't need to go out, get an MBA. I mean, if you want to, by all means do it, but it tends to be very expensive as well. 

00:14:15 - So buying and selling businesses is very, it's a very funny thing because when you, a lot of people, when you talk to them about it, they initially think of, oh, you have to be an accountant or you have to have numbers with, but- Yeah, CFO, track record, whatever, definitely. 

00:14:35 - Exactly that. 

00:14:35 - But in many ways, I mean, when you're dealing, it depends on the size of the business, but the area I tend to focus on is businesses that are sort of below 5 million in annual revenue. And most of them are sort of 2 million and below. And when you're working with owners of businesses at that level, the numbers almost work against you because it's actually about relationships and building relationships and trust with people. And in most cases, you're speaking to someone about their life's work. They've spent 20, 30 years plus.

00:15:13 - building this business, and they reached a stage where they want to move on. It's a very emotional process for them. And for a lot of them, they've got a huge amount of their sort of wealth and, and not just wealth, but pride and identity. 

00:15:30 - That's like their child, right? 

00:15:31 - Almost Exactly. So if you go in with a spreadsheet, you're not really respecting that, that journey, but you go in as a human and, and, and an authentic one, and you sit down and you really talk to them, that's how you that's how you do it. And I sort of haven't had haven't started a business I recognize, I recognize that with other business owners. And so I felt that you 

00:15:57 - By theory, you certainly can't learn to do it by M&A. This was a case of going out one step in front of the other putting aside the fear or feeling the fear and just having a conversation and, and, yeah, it just sort of evolved from there. 

00:16:13 - And what about, I think people will be thinking, okay, to buy businesses, even if they're relatively small, you need a lot of money. 

00:16:23 - So it is a big, it's normally the first the first statement that comes to people's mind, but Yeah, are you a millionaire? 

00:16:34 - Like what? I mean, what gives? 

00:16:36 - Yeah, exactly. I mean, so I've, so I've used this skill set to build a group of companies in the children's education sector. And my reason for doing that is because it's not just about the commercials, it's about actually something more than that. But hands on heart, I haven't used, like, I didn't have a bank, a big bank of savings. I didn't have anything, really. 

00:17:03 - The reason I'm asking is because this is going to, you know, prohibit people from actually taking the steps of doing this, whilst I think so many smart people would massively enjoy doing what you're doing, and could add like an insane amount of value. And it would, you know, be constantly engaging to them. But I think this is such a massive barrier to thinking, I need so much cash, this is never going to happen. 

00:17:21 - Yeah, that's just it. And and I mean, the short answer is you don't because the key when you're when you're doing this is you have to recognize that there's risk. And particularly there's risk in smaller businesses. And so even if a business has a price tag that goes into sort of the hundreds of thousands, and even like millions, like it's very often sitting down with the owner or owners of that business and saying to them, look, you know, essentially, what I'm buying here is contracts. And it's you've got your team in place. 

00:17:52 - But I've never had a business where some at least some aspects of the team didn't leave, like there's no security here. And so you have to and this is the key, you have to structure the deal for buying that business in a way that protects you. Because nasties will come up. And, you know, as someone who likes problem solving, and those intellectual challenges, like you kind of welcome them, but not when you've got, like your house on the line or anything like that. Exactly. Which is why you don't do that. 

00:18:24 - And a lot of business owners, they will, they will push back at first, because they're expecting a big bag of cash, so they can go off on their world cruise the next day. And I've literally had a business owner and his wife go off on holiday the next day. And it was a nightmare. 

00:18:41 - So you signed? 

00:18:41 - Oh, my God. Yeah. Within 24 hours. And it was a nightmare, because there's so many things you need to know from them, because they are the business to a large degree. And so it's about getting on a getting on a mutual page and into sort of a mutual understanding where you both recognize that actually, this can work, but it means working together. And this is where it falls back to the relationship and the trust aspect. 

00:19:07 - So you don't need loads of, of cash, I certainly wouldn't recommend putting like any sort of like real financial assets and you know, even cash in the bank at risk here, there's much smarter ways of approaching this. 

00:19:22 - I love this in so many ways. Because as you said, it is this beautiful combination of puzzles, right is finding something that you want to buy. How do you go about that? Like, how do you scout for for for companies? 

00:19:36 - It's one of the more I want to say the harder parts of the process, but there's a lot of businesses out there that you don't want to touch for various reasons. And the first step is actually understanding what do you want? And what are you looking for? And, and actually just articulating what good looks like. And then once you once you have a like a framework for that, then it's a question in most cases of being proactive. So directly approaching the owners or businesses like that. Now, I'm not talking about picking up the phone and cold calling. 

00:20:11 - No one likes doing that.

00:20:14 - Yeah, there's much more softer, warmer ways in which you can approach people, whether that be sending them a letter, as an example, and yeah, they, there's a variety of different methods, but it's all about, I'm always keeping at the forefront of my mind that I'm looking to build a relationship and a rapport with someone there. And so even the manner in which I approach people is very important to me. But then as you start moving down this journey, you like the table start to turn. 

00:20:46 - So these businesses start to find you out because they have sort of heard that you are, you know, ethical, moral, you're sort of, you know, always approach trying to do the do it in the right way. And what's the best for party. So they want to work, they want to sort of speak to you and work with you. 

00:21:04 - I love that you're saying this, because I just pulled the next card and it is values. Isn't that beautiful? 

00:21:10 - Yeah. 

00:21:11 - So are you consciously, do you consciously work with your values, or is it more kind of underlying red thread through everything you do? 

00:21:21 - So I, so last summer, I, so I've acquired several businesses over the last few years. And last summer, I, I sold my very first acquisition, which was nice. And in many ways, the biggest mistake I made there was that I should have sold it sooner. But either way, I had the summer off, and we had a really lovely sort of three week holiday with Vicky, my soon to be wife and daughter, Evie. And I spent a lot of time really asking myself some quite deep questions. And I went through like a, like a, like a certain process. 

00:22:01 - And I came out of that with what I sort of termed as my, my personal Bible. So within that Bible, and I'm not just like, I'm not a religious person, I'm spiritual, but I'm, I don't, I don't, yeah, it's like, If people have a problem with the word Bible, they can just translate it to manifesto or whatever. Yes, exactly that. So I created this sort of Bible manifesto. And within that, I clearly articulated certain things such as what was my definition of success. 

00:22:32 - So success for me is being my integrated, authentic self, I listed all of my moving my positive moving towards value. So I value so I value adventure, I value integrity, I value contribution. And then I listed all of my negative values that I move away from. And so things like embarrassment, humiliation, etc. And so I've reviewed that every week, it's in my diary, every week, when approaching these conversations, I'm just so clear on where I'm coming from. And I think people pick up on that. 

00:23:11 - I think this is a beautiful, like, process for listeners, actually, to borrow from you and go through them themselves, right? Get very clear on what your basic values are, and then check in, am I moving towards or away from them? 

00:23:24 - Yeah, yeah. I love that. 

00:23:26 - That's beautiful. People feel that and they see that. And I think also, this is where the difference between the short game and the long game comes in, right? If you're in it for the long run, you better have values. And that is gonna send you in such a good stead with people because they're gonna know and as you build a reputation, as you said, it just becomes easier and easier and easier. Okay, next card is about challenging yourself. Now, you already said you like extreme things, right? I saw pictures on LinkedIn of you in the cold. Tell us more. 

00:24:03 - Tell us everything. What about challenging yourself? 

00:24:06 - Yes. So in March of this year, I went on a small expedition with a group of people in the Arctic Circle. And we, I'm very much into sort of like endurance events, but also, I really like to the weight lifting a lot that intersection of strength and endurance. And I also love to travel. So I've started to sort of combine all of that. And so we spent six days in the Arctic Circle. We were sort of cross country skiing, we camped out, it was minus 17 degrees Celsius, which was a different level of experience. We even climbed a mountain there as well. 

00:24:45 - And it was just the most phenomenal experience on so many different levels, one because you're in such a unique environment. But, you know, I do this very, I say selfishly, and I mean, that term in a positive phrase rather than the negative phrases associated with but I do it for me and for my personal growth. And every time I go on these trips or these adventures, I come back a changed and I like to think a better person, even if a small component. 

00:25:16 - So yeah, that was in March, and I've done my first ultramarathon across northern England in June, which was great fun. Next year... 

00:25:27 - Okay, hang on.

00:25:30 - My brain's like, does not compute. Ultra marathon, great fun. How many miles or kilometers is an ultra marathon? 

00:25:36 - That was 70. Oh my god. 

00:25:40 - Like consecutively. 

00:25:42 - Yeah, without, yeah. So yeah, it was. So I'm very active on Instagram. And I was doing like basically captured the whole event on Instagram. So like updating my story. So there's one where sort of crossing the start line, like touching the big inflatable above you as you cross at 7am. And then one sort of touching the finish line as you came in. It was just gone quarter past three on some on the next morning. 

00:26:09 - Amazing. 

00:26:10 - Yeah, so much fun. 

00:26:12 - I think the beauty of stuff like this is, is, I mean, it's, there's a couple of aspects to it. When I think back, like on the couple of like physical things I did, like getting a black belt in Aikido, like just pushing yourself beyond what you think you're capable of, right? Our bodies are so amazing. And we just, I don't know, our brain's like, no, can't do that. And then you do it. And you're like, Oh, fuck me, I could. 

00:26:37 - That was it. And I, I was, I was really making a point of capturing my state of mind on again on Instagram as I was going through this. And I remember, and it's on my Instagram profile, in the highlights, you can see the exact video where I'm about 50 miles in. And I'm sort of like walking along like half limping saying that my legs, you know, physically, my legs went around 1819 miles. And ever since then, it's been a pure mental game. And so the physical, our physical body astounds me, but our mental capacity, like no pun intended, blows my mind. 

00:27:15 - So good. 

00:27:16 - Yeah. 

00:27:16 - And, and when you get and it's a very, I mean, for some people, it becomes a very dangerous game, because they get addicted to the adrenaline, and then they push their bodies beyond its capacity, right? And they break things. So how do you, how do you sort of dance in that sort of sweet spot where you push yourself beyond but you don't, maybe you do break things? Tell me. 

00:27:39 - Well, no, I mean, unfortunately, touch wood to I've never broken a bone in my body. But I go into these events where I'm, I'm not focused on the clock. It's not about finishing in a particular time. And my I always go into every one of these events with it's like me versus me. I'm doing it for me. I'm going to cross that finish line. I already know I'm going to cross it before I've even taken off. I don't care about the time. And I'm completely open and relaxed to everything that will naturally come up during that. 

00:28:13 - So whether it's, you know, your t shirt rubbing, or if you twist your ankle, whatever that is, I'm totally open and accepting of that. Because, yeah, these are the mini tests that come up during this longer event. And it's and that's where the growth is. 

00:28:29 - Okay, hang on. This is a perfect metaphor for building business. 

00:28:33 - Yeah, yes. Totally. 

00:28:35 - I mean, I'm getting goosebumps, because this is first of all, you decide, you're going to do it. And it doesn't right. It's like the decision, because people are often like, I'm, you know, I've started a couple of businesses as well. And they were like, how did you do that? And like, it's not a question of like, is it going to work? It's, it's going to work, I'm figuring out how it's going to work. And I'll keep at it until I figured it out. Like, you know, giving up is not an option. So that's like the first thing. 

00:29:01 - And second, being completely open to all the bullshit that's along the way. I love that. That's beautiful. 

00:29:09 - This actually ties back to the very first question, which is the frustrations with yourself. And I said, it was the impatience. And I've got better, got better at that with with age. And actually, like, if you dive into that a bit deeper, it's the releasing of any, you know, preconceived timeframes, it's the time aspects that tends to cause the most stress and frustration. And so now I just completely like, let go and just sort of roll with things in it. And it seems to work out significantly better. Oh, my God, yes. 

00:29:40 - I mean, in coaching, we would frame this as, you know, it's not better here than there. That is what people have to learn. They think, if I get there, I'll feel better. And that's why everybody's in such a rush. But, you know, surprise, surprise, when you get there, you still feel this. Usually, so you might as well start feeling good where you're at, which is exactly what you're doing during these challenges. I love it. That is such a beautiful, beautiful metaphor. And also, like, again, you've designed your own education, like parallel, right? 

00:30:11 - How do you expand your comfort zone? How do you become more resilient? Love it. Beautiful. Okay, next card, trust, trusting yourself and trusting others, which I'm also super interested in.

00:30:25 - Yes, so this has been a very, very special journey for me, actually, like a personal journey of, of really attuning myself to my instincts. 

00:30:40 - And yeah, just my instincts over the years, and I've managed to do that, largely through journaling. 

00:30:48 - And so in the very beginning, it was I had a feeling that like, I should do this, but I wasn't quite sure because I hadn't built no real trust around my around my instincts. 

00:31:03 - And then I'd write it down in my journal. And then two weeks later, something would happen. 

00:31:08 - And if I'd either follow the instinct or haven't hadn't, I could literally go back and read and you started to connect these dots. And then it was that process combined with, again, just like putting myself in different situations. 

00:31:23 - I've done a lot of traveling. I've been in the most remarkable sort of, like situations where even now I look back and think blimey. But just by purely following my instincts have somehow managed to come out and come through those and now And can you now we want sorry, but now we want an example of that. 

00:31:44 - Okay, I'll give you the most I probably give you the most prominent one in my mind. 

00:31:47 - So when I was 27, I was in a really unhappy place. And that everything in my life wasn't the way I wanted it to be. And I really didn't know what to do. And I've always had this great love for America. And so I decided that I was basically just going to go buy a one way ticket to America and go to America, which is actually harder. 

00:32:09 - Like it's easier said than done, because you need a ticket out to go. And I didn't know this until I went to the airport. But I had no money as well. 

00:32:17 - So I had $600 to my name. And I managed to get on this flight to Los Angeles. 

00:32:22 - And I was sitting there thinking, I have absolutely no idea how this is going to pan out. 

00:32:28 - And I'm probably going to be flying home within a week because I've run out of money. 

00:32:32 - But I was gone for nearly a year in the end. And I managed to work my way up the West Coast. 

00:32:38 - I spent a month a month living and working on a hobby farm in Vancouver Island in Canada. 

00:32:45 - And then I ended up in the Caribbean of all places. But in that it was very much a like kind of hand to mouth. 

00:32:54 - So I remember walking down the street in San Francisco and going into a 7-Eleven. And I literally had my last $5 to my name. And I was like, I used to love these burritos. 

00:33:05 - They done there for a couple a couple of dollars each. So I bought two of those and I walked out eating them. But thinking I just have no idea how I'm going to survive this. And then I sort of carried on walking along. And then I had this hunch to actually just go off down a different street and take a slightly different slightly longer direction. And so I followed it and I found $20 on the floor. And it lasted me the next hand on heart. And it lasted me the next, you know, the next couple of days. 

00:33:33 - And it was just this, it was just this case of, I couldn't see far ahead, I need the next step. And, and, and it was just following that next step and trusting your instincts. And, yeah, it just built up, it built up this sort of trust and inner knowing where I don't even question it now. Like, it's just implicit trust in myself. 

00:33:56 - And that's played a big part, I think, in kind of how things have evolved. 

00:34:01 - And I think, did you when you were a kid, did you have lots of different, like, jobs to make money? 

00:34:06 - Or did you never work? 

00:34:08 - Yes, no, no. So I was, I've always been a worker. Yeah. So I'm definitely more of a workhorse and So when I was just just turning 13, I was obsessed with cars, and I still love sort of cars and motorbikes now. And, and even though I couldn't drive until I was 17, I was I made a decision that actually, I was going to start saving. And then, yeah, but I wasn't old enough to get a job. And then the day after my 13th birthday, I managed to secure a paper rounds, local paper rounds, and then, which was great. 

00:34:46 - And I was saving money, but I wanted to save more. And so by the time I was 15, I had five paper rounds that I had franchised out. And I was working in the paper shop, like dealing with local customers and signing new accounts. And then, yeah, I ended up winning paper boy of the year. 

00:35:06 - Oh, my God, this is so gonna go into show notes. 

00:35:11 - Paper cutting, actually, but it was amazing. Classic case of one step in front of the other. 

00:35:17 - Yeah, this go.

00:35:19 - But the reason I ask is because I think this also builds a lot of trust, as in it has been my experience. I also remember getting very excited about being old enough to get my first paper round, always babysitting, always working, always hustling, making money, buying and selling on like what used to be Queen's Day, all the things. And I also never worry about like where my next dollar or pound or euro is going to come from. I just know I'll make it work because I know how to work. Right. There's there's that kind of trust. 

00:35:48 - That's just it. And I've really got that. And I found myself in, I recorded a video a few months back where with the group of companies now, there's I mean, we've got 17 employees. And with one of them, the big turnaround, quite an intense turnaround I'm doing at the moment, our finance director was absolutely stressing because we had payroll due on the Friday. And like all of these bizarre and crazy things that happened that we had a lot of money owed to us, but it hadn't come in. 

00:36:21 - And she was she was like tearing her hair out saying, how are you staying so calm? How are you staying so calm? But I just instinctively knew that payroll would be sorted. And so I didn't worry about it. And then it was the day before, the day before payroll, we miraculously got a check in the post, which we couldn't reconcile. We didn't know where it come from, but it was enough to cover it. Okay, right. 

00:36:45 - And so good. Okay. And then trust in other people, which is very important. Because what you're doing? 

00:36:54 - Yeah, I've probably struggled with this a bit more, if I'm being honest. So, yeah, there's, there's a very small circle of people who, like Vicky, my, my partner and like my mum, for example, a very small circle of people who I again, trust implicitly. I say implicitly, like, I don't think I trust anyone as much as I trust myself, like being very, like transparent there. But certainly with, as our team has grown from a work perspective with employees, there's been, you know, I've had my fingers burned multiple times with people. 

00:37:37 - And even yesterday with someone when I found something else about one of our employees, and I was like, they've just been sort of deceiving us and it and it's, I think it can be quite easy. And I even said this to Vicky when I called her on the way home last night that I'm trying not to be cynical about like, to have that default cynical approach about people and trust because I really love people and I really believe in people. But yeah, so I probably struggle with that a bit, a bit more, I'd say. 

00:38:09 - And how do you manage it then? Because you're still hiring people, right? Like, I, again, I'm asking because I know so many fast brain humans who are solopreneurs, and who could actually really build something big and beautiful, should they want to, but the biggest barrier to them is building a team. 

00:38:25 - Of course, there's also like, you know, dealing with all that, especially with with stuff like ADAT, but trusting other people, as well as and I think I'm sure it's going to be similar, or it has been similar for you, seeing someone else do something and then think I could do this in like, at least half the time. 

00:38:42 - Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And at the beginning of my journey, I was very much wanted to do it myself, because it had to be done in a particular way. And like, as a business owner, you will always be the biggest bottleneck to the growth of your business. 

00:39:03 - And to grow a business, you have to as a business owner, you have to learn to delegate and you can only delegate on a foundation of trust, which is directly to your directly to the question, what what I've, I think I've got a lot better with this, but I've created a well, I say created, I don't know where I heard it. But we have a mantra that we say in the business, and I'm always saying this now, which is higher for attitude, train for skill. And so many times we've hired for skill, but the attitude wasn't there. 

00:39:36 - And every time that's where the problem comes from. But now it's always about attitude first, even if they have haven't got the direct skills we need, we will invest and train them up. And that hasn't actually let me down yet, like attitude from the right people in place. And it's significantly easier to let go and to trust them. And and I'm yet to be proven wrong against that. 

00:40:00 - And I also want to flip this and say to people listening, do you hear this as in so many days, people, especially women don't apply to jobs, they're not like 100% qualified for but if if employers start hiring for attitude, and you have the right attitude, by all means, start applying, seriously, I can honestly say the like, the female employees that we have in our business, I just, I like, I don't sound bad against the men, but they, they are superb, but they are, like, genuinely the best. 

00:40:38 - And actually, I had a bit of a problem. Sort of last year where we didn't actually have enough men in the business to kind of balance it out. Exactly. And you know, that balance is is important. But yeah, it just blows my mind that someone male or female may not apply for a job because I feel they haven't got the skills if the attitudes there and if an employer doesn't see that, then that's their loss. And there will be employers that will so.

00:41:07 - Next card, building a team. 

00:41:09 - Yes. 

00:41:10 - Right. So how, I mean, this is going to be your superpower, because this shit is working for you. One of your many superpowers. How do you build a team that works? Because it's not just about hiring the right people, right? Even hiring for attitude, all that kind of stuff. But then how do you get them to work together? 

00:41:30 - So you mentioned the word earlier, which is the word puzzle, and the many sort of like problems like solving a puzzle. Well, building a business is like putting together a puzzle. And the starting point is actually recognizing, well, what piece are you in that puzzle? So again, I look back on my earlier days in business, and I was there trying to do things that actually I wasn't the best suited person to do that. But I thought it was what I had to do. And I and I wanted to do it, even though I was miserable at doing it. 

00:42:08 - And it just came to a recognition that actually, like this is the bit I enjoy doing, this is the bit that I'm probably better at than the other puzzle pieces, focus on that and just find a way of getting the next puzzle piece in and the next puzzle piece. And that was, and still is my approach to team building. And our puzzle is far from complete, far from... 

00:42:33 - Probably never will be, right? This is like always shifting. It's a dynamic living thing. But like, I got DISC certified. I don't know if you use DISC a lot in the UK, but that was for to me was super useful understanding like, oh, people just have very different qualities, and different communicative styles. And you really need to talk about that and be clear about it and figure it out. And then you can work beautifully together. And of course, there's still going to be confusion, fuck ups, all the things, but that's part of the game. 

00:43:03 - That's just it. And I wouldn't, if you know, if someone is listening to this, and they are either thinking of starting a business or they have a business and they want to start building their team, I like, I wouldn't overthink it. Because it's very easy to do that. Like there will be some part of the business that you are clearly not good at, or you don't enjoy. For a lot of people, it could be finance. So a lot of small business owners don't enjoy finance. So that's okay. Start with the finance piece. 

00:43:31 - And also recognize that not every person you hire is going to work out. If it doesn't work out, that's okay. Because you're doing them a favor, as well as yourself a favor by confronting that reality, rather than trying to, you know, put a square peg into a round hole. So... 

00:43:47 - And you're collecting data, as in you're learning what works and doesn't work, right? Because people can get so, so completely depressed, like, oh, I tried hiring people, but it didn't work out. I'm like, yeah. Next, right? Like, what did you learn? Yeah, next. 

00:44:01 - I think the important part to building a team is having a is having a vision, like, why you're there. So I spend most of my day talking about why we're doing what we're doing, rather than you got to do this, or we got to do that. I'm always really like, reflect on it. I'm talking about the why probably more than anything else. 

00:44:21 - So why are you doing what you're doing? 

00:44:24 - So for us, and particularly for me, it's about the kids. So I was in a very different industry. I mean, just three years ago, I was in a very different industry. But having... So Evie was nearly one at the time, which was in 2020. And having been exposed to this whole new world, which is children, I was fascinated and extremely tired. But I was just sort of fascinated with this whole new world. And I've always seen business as a vehicle for not just making money, but for driving, like positive change at more of a scale. 

00:45:04 - And I never really knew where to focus that. But I saw this world of kids, and I had always serendipitous events sort of happen that really made me recognize that actually, those sort of first years of a person's life are so influential, influential and transformational. And that focusing, like my time and my efforts on that part of someone's life journey would be a life well spent. And so when I say it's about the kids, it truly is. We are building an integrated learning experience for children, because everything's quite fragmented. 

00:45:41 - And so with all of the major decisions, there's been some pretty big tough decisions I've had to make over this month. And with the team, like it's always first and foremost, this is about kids, and keeping that in context. And then from there, after the kids, it's about the team.

00:46:04 - But tell us a bit more about that, because I know what you're building, or at least I think I know, but what are you building for the kids? 

00:46:12 - So the company is called Spectacular Group. It's essentially a group of companies that come together to provide this integrated sort of learning experience where we really want to shape someone's, like a child's development and growth as they grow older. So I started with buying a very small franchise network called Talking Tots, which does speech and language communication for under fives. And that was very tiny, but I done that as a commitment to myself that I wanted to play a part in this, however small. 

00:46:53 - And then that sort of led to buy in a much larger business called Joe Jingles, which provides music and movement classes, again, to under fives. And between those two businesses, we educate around 10,000 under five year olds every academic term. And then last year, I had the opportunity to buy a business that builds playgrounds. 

00:47:14 - So fun, seriously. 

00:47:18 - But I sort of got into that, and that there's a lot of things wrong with that business. And it's been a real, it's been an exhilarating ride. I've had a great time. But we've sort of turned that inside out. And so that business now builds sort of outdoor learning environments for mainly for primary schools and nurseries in the UK. But they are based around the like the National Academic Curriculum. 

00:47:45 - So you said one key stage to EYFS. And so piece by piece, we are, you know, inside and now outside the classroom starting to shape these environments and these, this sort of content that's being being delivered to these sort of young children. And yeah, I mean, this is less than three years old. It's all been done for acquisition. And yeah, we've still got a long way to go. 

00:48:12 - What is your biggest learning? Because you said, like, I've had to make a lot of tough choices over the past month. What is your biggest learning from that, from this sort of recent period? 

00:48:23 - I was literally talking about this this week with Vicky. So I've had to make some very tough decisions, toughest decisions in my life over the last three to four weeks. And in the context, we've had a lot going on in our personal lives. We've had a close family member pass away and various other things sort of happen. And I was really struggling with these decisions. And the insight that I came to was that the decisions themselves were clear, like commercially, these decisions were clear to make. And so that wasn't what I was struggling with. 

00:49:02 - What I was actually struggling with was that in making these decisions, I had to lose an old part of my identity that, you know, that was who I am. This is, you know, that part of me, that was me. But actually, it was an acceptance that no, that wasn't me. If that makes sense. 

00:49:19 - Yeah, or at least that was an old version. And you've sort of transformed into a new version. 

00:49:25 - Well, transforming, I would say. And yeah, so that was by far the biggest, and I really battled with that biggest sort of struggle. Again, it all goes back to the personal rather than the like the outside. Yeah. 

00:49:41 - And that does the thing, I think if you care, because I'm guessing that that is something that happened here as well. If you care a lot about the personal relationships and some stuff is also much harder. 

00:49:51 - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

00:49:53 - So there is that that price to pay on the flip side. But I'm just looking at the next card, because in our pre chat, we talked about you said, like, business to me also is like, was an art, right? It's, it's something creative. And I love that, that I have the same experience when people are like, oh, especially from the arts world where I've been active as well, like business is just boring shit around money. And like, you have no idea. So how do you see business as an art? Yeah, it's funny. 

00:50:20 - I don't know where this has come from. But again, it's just, I trace it back to my late teens, when I just knew I wanted to buy and sell businesses and turn businesses around. I always viewed business, but if someone asked me, like, who I am, I would say, well, more creative than a business person, but I'm more, I'm far more than a creative than like, you know, some business person. And it just happens that business is my canvas. 

00:50:51 - And so the different components of business, like learning how to market business or business finance, so just they're my paintbrushes and the different paints and you've, you know, you upgrade and you get new ones and, and.

00:51:04 - over the last maybe sort of 15 years, I've been sort of experimenting, I guess, with, oh, I tried this painting or that painting and had a lot of failures. But certainly with Spectacular Group, it's very different. It feels like no, I'm actually approaching this blank canvas and starting to apply and build something that, for me, is a piece of art. And that is genuinely how I look at it. So, yeah, it's an amazing creative outlet and it tests in all the right ways. 

00:51:41 - I always say running a business is like free personal development training forever. It never stops. But there was something else I just want to ask about that and now it's gone, but it will come back to me when it comes back to me. But I'm also curious. I always love to ask guests about any rituals they have or whether they've done something in their physical space to help them be more happy, productive, successful, you name it. What does that look like for you? 

00:52:12 - Yeah, so for me, I have a really clear structure to my morning. So I've always enjoyed getting up early in the morning. And I'll get up at 4am in the morning and I sort of worked to that, like when I started to get up early, it was like, oh, six o'clock or half past six and then move back. But seven days a week, you know, every day, I'm up at 4am and I'm going through a particular routine. So I will, you know, go downstairs, make a cup of tea, very British. 

00:52:46 - Milk or tea first, we have to have that discussion. 

00:52:49 - I can't do anything without a cup of tea in hand. But then I will read 10 pages of the book every single day. And it's phenomenal just how many books I've read. Because of that one tiny little habit. And I will then meditate 15 minutes, I will then go and exercise. And so I'll go to the gym, and I'll have a good workout. And there'll be a number of other things I do within that first sort of three hours of the day every day. And after that, so about seven, maybe half seven at a push, my daughter's either up or she's getting up. 

00:53:25 - So then I'll come back and I'm dad. And I'm really enjoy that time at making her breakfast and just, you know, having fun with her, really. But I'm approaching not just my daughter and my family, first and foremost, but the rest of my day, I'm approaching phone calls, meetings, emails, everything from a very different perspective. And I never fully appreciated the significance of this. And I can't like emphasize this is enough, like the word significance. 

00:53:52 - It wasn't until it was, it was the summer last year when we went on a family holiday, it was a weekend holiday. And I'd really nailed and sort of worked on getting this routine right after selling after selling the first acquisition. And we was on this holiday, it was a beautiful holiday, but I felt awful. I felt really awful. And I was getting loads of rest and enjoying time in the pool, but I just couldn't put my finger on it. And it was the last day when I got up and I was like, that's it. I haven't been doing my routine. 

00:54:22 - And it all clicked into place. And so ever since then, I've been like, hand on heart, the best part of my day, the best part of my day, and I go to bed at night, genuinely wait, like looking forward to waking up. And it's had the most profound impact, like more than worse could explain really. 

00:54:42 - I think this is a massive gift you're giving yourself every day. 

00:54:46 - It is. It really is. Yeah. 

00:54:48 - When you talk about building self-trust, right, like you're also saying I matter and how the way in my health matters and my mental health matters, like the way I feel matters. And I'm going to prioritise it above everything else. 

00:55:01 - This is, this was just so profound for me. It was, it just has such a massive impact that I've, I had, you know, a few close friends and acquaintances come and said, what's happened? Are you okay? Yes, but things are noticeably different on the outside. And like, well, you know, what's going on here? And I know we'd always go back saying that this is the power, this is, this is the source of it. And so I found myself in a position where they're saying, well, can you show us what you're doing? 

00:55:28 - And so I started working with a couple of those and seeing how I posted on it about it on Instagram this morning, seeing how their lives have started to change has been the most humbling experience and just reinforce that this is the secret source. It's that first part of that day, which you give to yourself. That is the key to all of it. 

00:55:48 - Yeah, 100%. 

00:55:50 - And.

00:55:52 - almost like allowing yourself that, because we're so conditioned, like it's selfish to want to carve out time for yourself for things that seem kind of superficial in a way. I'm not saying they are at all, but like, you know, shouldn't you be, I don't know, working, et cetera, et cetera. And this is actually the deepest work you can do, I think, right, taking care of you and growing, learning, staying healthy, meditating, 100%. 

00:56:21 - This goes back to the boundaries again, that having the time, like very, like I protect it. But before, the reason I stumbled across this was because like previously I was getting up at four but going straight on to emails and I had this complete sort of breakdown and the severe anxiety. And that was kind of the precursor to this sort of journey of self-discovery. And now having been on both sides of it, I know which side I want to be on. 

00:56:51 - Yeah, you're not going to go back, right? Never. Let's talk a bit about boredom. Do you even ever get bored or is there too much going on? 

00:57:05 - There is, I rarely get bored and I've always been the same actually, because I'm so curious about life, about myself, about everything and also being quite strong sort of ADHD as well. Like I just rarely find myself in a situation where I am bored because I'm always, well, what about this? And I've always wanted to learn that and I think I just read this and so it rarely happens. 

00:57:37 - And I think you've also designed a life that is very not boring. 

00:57:41 - Yeah, but then on the flip side of that, there are times when I feel like, oh,... have a lazy Sunday today and to lay on the sofa and eat my favorite crisps and to watch films back to back. It doesn't happen because we've got a three-year-old at home and stuff like that. But it's, yeah, I try to get a sense of balance so that burnout doesn't creep in. Even then, like balance, like half a day of doing nothing and I'm like, well, I'm ready to go again. 

00:58:16 - I think it's an illusion, again, for so many of us that we should, like there's this thought like, oh, I'll take the whole week off or I'll just sit back and relax and you'll be like, this sucks. After like six hours, let's go do something. 

00:58:34 - I always relate it to, I love reading autobiographies and I love watching interviews and hearing successful people talk, particularly in the latter part of their lives. And I'm not just talking about business. They could be success in any art form or whatever. And the common theme that they all say is, when people ask them about retiring, like they're in their 80s. Like, why would I retire from something I love doing? And I feel like that, like having sort of worked very hard to shape a life where it's not work, it's my lifestyle. 

00:59:09 - And why would I not want to spend time doing something I love? Like, it doesn't make any sense. 

00:59:14 - It doesn't, it just does not compute, right? I have the same thing. I'm like, why would I want to stop working? I just don't get it, it's completely lost. 

00:59:24 - It's that art form, it's a self-expression. So why would I want to stop expressing myself if I get in fulfillment from it? Which is a different, I do appreciate it's a different head space from if you are working in a corporate role, just as an example, nothing against corporate, but you've not identified those passions. 

00:59:44 - Sure, or if you're in a factory, I mean, of course you want to retire. That makes perfect sense, yeah. 

00:59:49 - Yeah, exactly. 

00:59:51 - But if you do what you love, it doesn't make sense at all to like ever stop doing it. And I think it's just a constant, like refining and honing again as an artist would and getting even closer to what you're meant to be doing on this planet, right? 

01:00:05 - Absolutely, yeah. 

01:00:07 - So good, okay. School, talk to me, first of all, how is your school experience and how has that, if at all, influenced the work you're doing? 

01:00:18 - Yeah, so I was very bored at school. Not surprised. I was very, very bored. I was often my head's in the clouds, busy like sort of mapping out how I was going to expand my paper rounds and stuff like that. But no, so I have to see purpose in what I'm doing and I just couldn't find the purpose in putting into my study. So I think it's typical of a lot of people with ADHD and like I did just enough to keep my head above water. This is when I was in sort of secondary school. I went into college wanting to be a doctor. 

01:00:59 - Oh, interesting.

01:01:01 - And so I wanted to be a doctor. And so my first time I was studying math, chemistry, and human biology, and straight A's across the lot, which sort of made me think, actually, maybe, like, maybe, you know, I'm not, maybe I'm smarter than I think I am. But I'm just, like, not stimulated. And then at the end of that first term, I started to, like, look more into the journey of being a doctor and recognizing that actually, like, who I am, I couldn't see myself studying for seven years. And so I quickly dropped down to C, straight C's again. 

01:01:37 - Motivation gone. 

01:01:40 - Completely gone. And yeah, I've somehow found myself at university, but I dropped out after three weeks, because again, I was looking around, and I couldn't see myself doing or taking this path in my life, even at that age. So I had a very different educational experience. Because even though I dropped out at university, I started a student business. And it grew, and it was a really fun, fun time. And I ended up staying for three years at university, but I wasn't a student. 

01:02:16 - To run the business. 

01:02:18 - Exactly. We had all of these student things going on. And it was a great education. But, yeah. 

01:02:28 - I love this, because I think so many people with ADHD are insanely smart, but they've been told all their lives, like, at least their school life, like, oh, you know, if only you'd apply yourself more, and you just don't have your shit together, and they start thinking they're stupid, or incompetent, or whatever. And they'll come to me and say, well, I'm not sure I should work with you, because I don't think I'm that smart. And I'm like, hang on. It's just a massive lie, because you didn't fit into the school system, right? 

01:02:57 - You didn't sort of tick the boxes of being studious and doing things properly, ticking all the boxes. You didn't fit into that narrative of what it looks like to be smart and bright. And you've kind of internalized all that disapproval. And now you think you're probably not that clever, which is such a massive waste, right? When people then sort of live their lives that way. 

01:03:21 - I just love that Einstein quote, which is everybody is born a genius, and then 99% are the genius-ized. It's a wonderful quote, because I really, I truly believe that. I think that everybody is born a genius and just has so much untapped intelligence and potential, but it's themselves that keep themselves back. And those self-limiting ideas or thoughts, that I'm not that smart, or I can't hold my concentration. Maybe you just haven't found the thing that, using your words, you were put here to do. Exactly. 

01:04:00 - And then you will be able to use that hyper-focus and everything else just melts away. And you're like, oh, is it 12 already? 

01:04:09 - Yeah, yeah. It's Wednesday, yeah. 

01:04:14 - Pivot. Like, there have been so many pivots in your life, I think. Like, how many do you see when you look at it? 

01:04:20 - Oh, hundreds. Like medicine, right? 

01:04:24 - First of all. 

01:04:25 - Even before that, I mean, my mum and dad, I think, were at their wits' end when I was sort... school into college, because I wanted to leave college. I was like, well, I don't want to be a doctor now, I want to go. And my dad somehow managed to convince me to stay. And from that point forward, in particular, I just tried so many different things. And I didn't stick at anything, which I'm sure ADHD had a role in that. But I, and they were at their wits' end by, why can't you just, you know, stick to something? 

01:04:58 - But I just sort of said to him, but why, if I've tried something, and I know I don't like it, why would I want to stick at it? 

01:05:05 - And I sort of- Okay, hang on, say it louder for the people in the back. Can you say that again? 

01:05:12 - If you try something, and you know, you don't like it, then what's the logical sense in sticking at it? 

01:05:19 - Surely- It's just self-torture, right? 

01:05:21 - Yeah, it would make more sense to go and try something else, that you take that feedback, and you use that, or maybe this be more suited. And there's nothing wrong with that. And like, I saw this at university, I saw so, because I stayed there for three years, but wasn't part of the university system. I saw so many of my friends in degrees that they despise. Yes. Oh, my God. And they're like, well, to get a degree, I was like, but are you going to use it? Like, well, no. 

01:05:49 - I was like, so why are you doing it? 

01:05:50 - Like, I just, I just couldn't get my head around it. And time is so precious. And yeah, I just, when it comes to pivots, I really believe that, you know, there is a balance, because sometimes you just have to persevere. Like, something's painful, you, the natural response is to pivot, but you have to, you have to know what end result you're going for, know yourself well enough to know, actually, am I just taking the easy way out here? Like, is this worth persevering? Compared to when, you know, pivot, I'm all for pivots, I'm all for it. 

01:06:26 - And I actually about this question, I have an entire podcast episode on like, should you change your mind? Or are you just being flaky? That is the question. So how do you know you're not being flaky in your case?

01:06:40 - So, again, it comes back to trusting myself, to trusting my intuition. The last two months have been incredibly painful with this turnaround. And so many times I've had the opportunity to walk away and actually to like to come away quite financially, like, do well financially. And so every option was saying, well, why don't you do that? You can walk away from this pain and you can do financially well. But it came back to, I mean, it's for the kids. And that is that path, even though it might be better for me personally, is not what this is about. 

01:07:25 - And so it's been very much a combination of my sort of instincts and intuition and also just absolutely clear on my why, why I'm doing this. And I'm just so pleased that I have stuck it out. And as again, I don't want to like, like, add all of these different sort of behaviors to certain labels, but as someone with ADHD, sticking something out, it's probably the hardest thing. 100% Strength of purpose, really. Yeah. Yeah. 

01:07:58 - I think it can be so powerful to have a purpose, a why, and this is my next card, right? Like caring about the bigger circle, your bigger impact. I think as humans, we're almost wired to want to help, right? I mean, people are so terrified of asking for help and I always say, like, people love helping. Look at all the unsolicited advice in the world. People love helping other people. So how does like, in addition to what we've already sort of touched upon, how does this show up in your work, like caring about the bigger impact of what you do? 

01:08:42 - I think it's that, I think that bigger impacts in about, and for me that I think of the individual person rather than, you know, a certain scale or geography or whatever, however you sort of define that, that bigger impact, but that is what is, that is, that is the driving force. So prior, say, to Spectacular Group, it was more the traditional, well, I'm in business to make money. And it was about making a, you know, a commercially viable business that generated a profit. And quite honestly, I was miserable. 

01:09:16 - Because I've recognized that it was, it needed to be more than that, which is why I sort of found myself on this journey going into the children's sector. But even that has over spilled further now. So you know, my days are busy, and there's a lot of moving parts in a group of companies, but I really enjoy carving out time, like daily and weekly to be like showing others, well, this is how I do my morning routine and there's like, like, when you look at it from a black and white perspective, people always, why are you doing that? 

01:09:49 - Or why are you spending your time? But actually, it's about that. It's about that. It is selfish, because I get personal fulfillment from that service to others. 

01:10:01 - So yeah, I don't know, sorry, I don't know if that answers your question. No, no. So, but it is selfish. But being selfish means that you can actually show up as like a fun human to be around. I think that's another part people tend to forget, that we also need to be selfish to be like our best selves. Yeah, that sounds very quotable. 

01:10:19 - You can't fill up someone else's cup if yours is empty. Exactly. You just can't. No matter your best will in the world. So you need to put yourself first in order to put other people first and yeah. 

01:10:33 - Yeah, 100%. And it is like, I think, especially our culture, like more Protestant culture is so like, you know, no, others come first and you come last. And I think that's really insidious. And it's very hard to sort of shake off and not feel actually guilty about carving out this time for yourself. But once you start doing it, you'll just notice such a massive difference. And also, it's the same with boundaries, actually, the massive service you're doing to the people around you, including your loved ones. 

01:10:59 - I think when I figured out that my husband preferred for me to tell him, like what I actually wanted. It's like a massive, massive game changer in our relationship. So I would really like this, or I would really like to be left alone now or whatever. 

01:11:16 - Amazing. Yeah. And it sounds so like, why wouldn't you, like when you could have said like that, but being that place where, well, they should know and exactly, okay, one more thing, I didn't make a card on this, which is interesting, money, right? 

01:11:35 - Because you just said, which I loved, like I was in it for like making the profit and I just wasn't engaging enough. How do you look at money now? Because money is to so many people is such a loaded topic and it's, you know, it's taboo to want it. It's taboo to have it in some circles, but it can also be super fun and useful.

01:11:58 - I at the core of my beliefs around money and going back to that sort of personal Bible and personal manifesto, I've listed out my beliefs around money and other aspects. 

01:12:09 - Oh, that's in there too. 

01:12:10 - Amazing. There's four like books within it. So I've got like a two year vision. So this is how I see like my relationships and like, and one of the books is the sort of belief, the belief component and accrued wisdom as well, like crows. So but the core of my beliefs around money is I truly believe money is there to make good things happen for good people. And so I, particularly within business and much to the dismay of my finance director, like when we make a profit, I'm immediately like a typical entrepreneur sort of characteristic. 

01:12:50 - I'm immediately like, well, we could do this better, or we can do that better. I want to reinvest it back into like the mission. And it's not always to get a bigger profit out. It could be to simply deliver something to a better standard or improve product, right? Yeah. Because it's an art form. It's a yes. So I've and again, with my just like with that sort of in a trust, I used to really be focused on making money. And I've sort of learned that the the harder you chase money, the faster it runs away. 

01:13:24 - So now I just like I just let go like you don't need and I learned this when traveling like, yeah, once you got your next meal and a roof over your head. Yeah, it's all you need, really. And so the love of people around you who you know, you want to be around. That's, that's it. 

01:13:42 - There is so much power in that because there's so much freedom in that. 

01:13:46 - Yeah. Yeah. 

01:13:47 - You're not bound. 

01:13:49 - Exactly. And it tends to attract more. Because you're, I'm not indifferent to it. But I feel like I'm moving to a place of indifference, where I'm not quite there in my personal growth yet. But I feel like I at some point in my life, I will be. And I suspect at that point is when it will really flood in because Yeah, isn't it ironic? Yeah. 

01:14:14 - You have to be able to completely let go to, you know, get the thing, basically, the attachments and detachment more accurately. 

01:14:23 - So yeah, so I mean, with Yeah, it's all about right now. It's all about this sort of art form and and doing what we can to sort of touch people's lives, like genuinely touch people's lives. 

01:14:35 - Love it. Okay, final question, which I always ask is, can you think of a person that you would love to put in the spotlight? Like that you think, oh, my God, they're doing amazing work in the world. And they deserve way more attention than they're currently getting? 

01:14:54 - Ah, such a good question. 

01:14:58 - And you can also tell me later, and I'll just put it in the show notes, because I kind of sprung this upon you, because but this is my way of thinking, oh, right, there's so many people doing amazing work in the world, let's give them a bigger platform. 

01:15:12 - Some of the most amazing people I've met, truly the most, like the most sort of interesting and like amazing people I've met have been in the world of social business, where they are founders, or they are key key members of a business that is primarily driven by making a social impact rather than a profit. But as you know, anyone in this world knows, you have to make a commercially viable business in order for it to sustain. And so I know some just wonderful people around the world who have been doing this for a long time. 

01:15:50 - And so um, you know, people who bought water to, you know, hundreds of villages in Africa, while giving local communities, the chance to entrepreneurs in those communities, the chance to make a living for their family and many different aspects of, of our life. So it's not one person jumping out, but more, I would say a community, a small like community, but growing community. So and I can certainly introduce you to some of those people. 

01:16:18 - I'd love that. And I'd love to share links to the work they're doing on the on the website. 

01:16:25 - Again, it's very sort of humbling seeing, yeah, just seeing what they're doing. So yeah. 

01:16:30 - And I love that we all get to make like a different impact in our own way, right? Like, I am amazed that people go to different countries and help people and I love it. And I could never do it myself. And that's okay. I get to do other shit, right? We all have our role to play on this amazing stage, this blue, crazy planet.

01:16:50 - Just to comment on that, but I think a lot of people when they sort of think about social business, they think about, oh, you know, to bring water to a village in Africa or South America, and that's great, you know, I really applaud that. But I also think that, well, what about England? Or what about America, like the more like Western countries? So one of my favorite organizations is actually the Big Issue. 

01:17:12 - Yes. For people who don't know the Big Issue, like listeners who don't come from the UK may not know it. 

01:17:18 - Yes. So it's a so it's a magazine that for people who have been made, well, people who are homeless, typically through their their own sort of like vices, so drug addiction, alcohol, alcoholism, etc. In many cases, they've lost their families. They've really reached rock bottom to probably a level that many of us will never truly understand and appreciate. And the Big Issue is an opportunity for them who want to turn their life around, where they can start selling this magazine. 

01:17:51 - So they become a local distributor, they have a spot on a high street, and they will essentially like the like the finances are engineered in a way that they can buy like a bunch of these magazines, and then they can sell them and they can keep the profit. And then they can start to build up and to work themselves up. 

01:18:10 - And I always when I see them, I always spend time talking to these people and some of the stories like people have lost their family and they've, you know, they've managed to get themselves so they now have their own bedsit, which gives them an address so they can go and really works their way from the ground up. And I just think it is just the most phenomenal organisation really. And so yeah, I'd highly encourage anyone who hasn't heard of it to look into it and just like it's really touching. 

01:18:38 - Yeah, and buy it when you see someone selling it. 

01:18:41 - Definitely buy it. And even more importantly, spend time talking to the people selling it because very often they're sort of snubbed or looked down or you know, snubbed upon and people just walk past them as though they're insignificant, but they're not. And you listen to their journeys, and they're just grateful that someone's actually taking an interest. 

01:19:01 - I think you can also learn a lot from them, right? Like, and I, when I see, this is actually one of the hardest things for me when I studied in London when I moved there, because I'd never seen homeless people before. And I was in shock. And like the first weeks I gave them all my money. And then I realised that being a student, that was a very, very clever idea for the rest of the term. So I had stopped doing that. But I was just like, wow, first of all, how can you have like people sleeping on the street in such a wealthy country? 

01:19:30 - Second, I was like, this could be me. Right? Like immediately that sort of thought kicking in. Oh, this, this could, I can totally see how this can happen to someone. If you have just a little bad luck, or you know, where whatever happens to you, and things get out of control, maybe some mental health issues. And also, there were like kids there. It was really shocking, like teenagers. So I'm so happy that, you know, the big issue came and people are at least being helped a little bit. 

01:20:01 - Yeah. And the thing about the big issue is that it gives them people a platform to help themselves. Exactly. Because not everyone is in the space where they're ready to start doing that. But for those who are, there is a, like there is a channel, and there is a mechanism of being able to do that. And I just, I genuinely find it so humbling. And I'm greatly inspired by those type of organisations. And to a degree, like, I wouldn't say to the same extremely spectacular group, but that feeds into why we're doing this. 

01:20:32 - I love it. 

01:20:33 - Yeah. 

01:20:34 - And I think this is the most sustainable way of running a business, right? When you see the impact you make in the world, it's the best thing in the world. I remember doing something with my photography business, which had like an impact on thousands of people. And I actually said to my husband, like, it's not like I want to die right now. Like I have a child and I want to see you grow up and I love you very much. And I love my life, but I could die happily. Like having just touched so many people and brighten their lives. 

01:20:58 - It is like, there's no way you can translate that to money. It is the best, insanely good thing in the world. It's so fun. 

01:21:06 - It really is. And it's almost worth more than money. Oh, 100%. 

01:21:13 - So good. Anything else you want to share before we wrap up? Not really. 

01:21:19 - It's been, you know, just so thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. And, you know, very grateful for having me on your brilliant podcast and the Lego in the background. 

01:21:34 - And we can do the entire podcast about that and quality control and stuff as well. But maybe some other time. All right. Thank you. 

01:21:42 - Thank you. 

01:21:43 - Thank you so much, Adrian. 

01:21:45 - Thank you. Thank you so much.